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Author Topic: My take on Quarterback Play  (Read 27 times)
Jimmy T
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« on: November 23, 2022, 03:41:15 AM »

So, I was complaining to the guys the other day; "I think...I wonder...if there is a dearth of good quarterback play." So, I decided to look in on it and see what my opinion is if I challenge it.

First Off:

Untouchables
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
-they are at the sunset of their careers (Brady more than Rodgers). First Ballot Hall of Famers, what they've done can't be questioned, but now begins the fade for them. It happens! Also, both are playing really bad right now, and watching them play isn't that great.

The Greatest, the Top of the Pile (unofficially in order, but I'm not numbering
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
.
.
.
Joe Burrow
Tua Tagovailoa (I think...right?)

The Next Best Things
Dak Prescott
Lamar Jackson
Jalen Hurts
Geno Smith
Justin Herbert (These two can play,
Derek Carr        but they just can't win!)- maybe a bad spot for them, to be honest.

Play winning football, just really not inspired football
Jimmy Garopolo
Kirk Cousins
Justin Fields
Ryan Tannehill
Matt Stafford
Taylor Heinicke

"They DO play a football game" category
Mac Jones
Daniel Jones
Jared Goff
Andy Dalton
Kenny Pickett
Matt Ryan
Marcus Mariota

Awful
Colt McCoy/Kyler Murray
Russell Wilson
Jacoby Brissett
Trevor Lawrence
Baker Mayfield/Sam Darnold
Davis Mills
Zach Wilson

1. My categories are glib. Some times I think I'm rating how good they are (in my perception), how well they play, how they win, how they go about winning, and then my perception of their play and if I like how they play.
2. I don't know if I even believe the listings! The way I'm even looking at it now, I feel the top and bottom of each category could bleed over into the one above/below it. Like Dak and Lamar maybe could/should be part of the current great ones of the league. But Ryan and Mariota could fall down into the Awful range too. I dunno!
3. I don't know everyone's play that well. Perry can, and I expect will, give me a big earful about Pickett, and where he deserves to go up or down in my listing.
4. I think what I think about myself thinking is....I don't think there are really a lot of great quarterbacks, or great qb play in the league right now. It looks to me, in my own estimation, that most QBs are kinda of hum drum, or just "really, really...okay!" in their game play.

Argue me!  Cheesy
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 03:45:35 AM by Jimmy T » Logged

Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2022, 01:47:32 PM »

I think the list is almost the same as I would list them. Yes, that may shock you  Cheesy Cheesy

But hey, if I am picking the nits...

I think the following three are a little too high (but again, just opinion and having only three different is pretty damn good)

- Tuanigamanuolepola Tagovailoa - Similar to a lot of "out of no-where" QBs this year, he has impressed. But again, "this year", however he has never looked this good, so I want to see more. Is it a fluke, is it Memorex? (And yeah... TUA!! I won't touch the entire first name Grin, but still amazed that his last name is pronounced with the first syllable sounding as "Tongue"  Undecided  T-A-G = Tongue? And not even mentioning the vowel sounds that are all wacky and reversed in the middle as well. "Tongue-ah-vi-ah-low-ah". VI-AH?? The "i"sound comes before the "a"? COME ONE?!?!  Grin Only in a world where you pronounce the R before the V in the name FAVRE = Far'V?)

- Geno Smith - To me, a pure system QB (It is why he as always been a perennial back-up) with a medium level football IQ (below level world IQ). He essentially beat out loser Drew Lock... barely, and Seattle was going in with a QB in mind to grab next year, but he has surprised many and surpassed his level, for now. I think this guy should be two ranks lower, but... yeah (I may be totally wrong on this guy and the switch has been flicked, but I have witnessed his play over the years... this, I think, is an anomaly. But I hope not, I can pull for him)

- Derek Carr - kid gets a lot of crap thrown his way that he doesn't deserve, but at the same time if you tell me I can have either of the QBs that are in his group, he would certainly, without question be the last one I would pick. I think, and this is not a jab at him, I think I would place him in the Garoppolo/Cousins list, but man do I respect his heart. He isn't quite the "I WILL NOT GIVE UP" guy that Taylor Heinicke is (used to love seeing him play at my daughter's college, sadly even though they went to school together, she didn't know him or I would have had him over for diner one night  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy), but he does put love into the game

The only one that I think may be to low, is one that most people out there totally agrees with you on

- Daniel Jones - Dude does somethings that make me scratch my head at times, but other than Josh Allen, Justin Fields and Lamar Jackson, I don't think there is a better athletic QB on the list. Could I put him in the Herbert list? No, I sadly don't think so, but I would take Danny Dimes over any of the QBs in the list above him. Personally. Though again, I am almost alone in that feeling
 Grin

So yeah, after all that, I think we are pretty damn close to our thinking, mate. Of course it is still early in a lot of these guys careers... Tua, Burrow, Herbert and even Pickett (whom as a Steeler fan I am most worried about... but I think most of the problem is not only being a rookie, but that damn OC, Matt "horrible piece of shit" Canada. Ugh) so anthing can happen but I think ya got it in one, buddy
 Smiley
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Jeff
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 02:05:41 PM »

If we’re only talking “this year” is it fair to put Brady and Rodgers in an untouchable category?  If we’re talking “whole career” then yea they should be there.  But then  shouldn’t Russel Wilson be higher also? He did win a Super Bowl and Matt Ryan used to be great also, at least on paper.  Both stink this year though, I agree.
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 01:48:20 AM »


- Tua

- Geno Smith

- Derek Carr

The only one that I think may be to low, is one that most people out there totally agrees with you on

- Daniel Jones

 Of course it is still early in a lot of these guys careers... Tua, Burrow, Herbert and even Pickett
...so anthing can happen but I think ya got it in one, buddy
 Smiley

I struggled with putting Tua there. This has been his year. It certainly wasn't his first year, when he kept getting pulled for Fitzpatrick to save his bacon, or last year when he was just...poor. Bu the year he is having now...and that 30 point comeback against the Ravens...and their scoring...I guess this is a rating for the 'feels' and I hope I have for him? Even I think its too high.

Geno definitely got rated for just defying expectations and winning baby. Now, I don't think he's doing it all himself, or doing it amazingly so...and he may have just ended up in that spot during editing and adding names. Cheesy

Carr....wasn't he awesome once?? Kinda? I think I'm more impressed by his willingness to try and be the best...but never top out there...Probably should move down. I think I was being nice to him...Wink

Daniel Jones-I will be hard pressed to be convinced he's a good quarterback. This year they are playing above expectations, so good for G-men fans...But based on his entire history, I just don't see anything about his play that inspires me to believe when the chips are down, he'll recover the team. As even evidenced by last week. Definitely more physically athletic over everyone I've group him with, for sure!! You're right on that.

Even going  back to look, Geno, Herbert and Carr probably deserve to move a category down. I wish I knew how or why Herbert can't succeed. I know, multiple coaches here, receivers can't stay health on the field, where did the run game go? He plays like Marino; slinging and throwing without much around him, but can't win as often as late 80s and 90s Marino did.
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Jimmy T since 2001
Jimmy T
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2022, 01:50:11 AM »

If we’re only talking “this year” is it fair to put Brady and Rodgers in an untouchable category?  If we’re talking “whole career” then yea they should be there.  But then  shouldn’t Russel Wilson be higher also? He did win a Super Bowl and Matt Ryan used to be great also, at least on paper.  Both stink this year though, I agree.

I think because...I've liked them more, and they've had better careers???

Also, I don't like Russell Wilson, and this year makes me happy. Cheesy
It might also be that they are with different teams, and definitely are not showing success with their play. Which makes me (stupidly) question all their career then...which is, like I said, stupid.
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Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2022, 03:10:40 PM »

Daniel Jones-I will be hard pressed to be convinced he's a good quarterback.


Now, for one, I never said he was a "good" QB  Grin, but one I think gets more crap thrown at him that I feel he deserves. I am not saying he is a great QB, but the league acts like he is a pariah at the position Cheesy I just think he has never been giving a true shot at becoming a pretty decent QB and would still rather have him over everyone in the Garoppolo, Tannehill bunch (except for maybe Heinicke, whom I have already shown a bias for  Grin

With Daniel, his first coach (both head coach - Pat Shurmur and O-coordinator - the great Mike Shula... the worst OC in Giants history for production ) were fired his first year, so as a rookie he had two new guys telling him what to do. His second year he gets a special teams coach as head coach (Joe Judge) and the 'powerhouse offensive mind' (he says with tongue firmly in cheek) that is THE Jason Garrett  Roll Eyes... both of whom are fired in short order so he now has his third coach/OC in four years. That isn't great for any QB.

Secondly, for the first couple years of his career, he had the 'honor' of throwing to such incredible receiving talent as:
Sterling Shepard
Golden Tate
Darius Slayton
Evan Engram
Kaden Smith
Now there is some decent talent there, for the most part, Even Engram made the ProBowl, but none of those are what I would call "leap of the page" talent.

Also, in those bad years where he had terrible coaching, so-so talent at WR/TE and was getting creamed and hurt because his line was terrible... oops... Terrible with a capital "T"  Grin, he still finished around 19th in passing yards and completions and that is with being on a team that, believe, was in the top ten in dropped passes during that entire time (They are currently 5th in the league with 19)

I know what you are saying, but I do feel that while he will never be a top 10 talent, I think he is capable of winning a SuperBowl with the talent he does have.

But yeah, could be just me
 Grin

I wish I knew how or why Herbert can't succeed.

Three words....

Coaching
Coaching
Coaching

Brandon Staley, whom I admire for having the balls to go for so many 4th downs, has time and time again made error after error on the sideline, during the games, when it counts. From the aforementioned 4th down love to his egregious  time management (calling or not calling a time out when he shouldn't or should) to play calling errors, you name it, this kid is not a good game day coach. Very good Monday-Saturday coach, but on game day, he needs to start calling in sick
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Along with the Steelers, I try to watch every Charger game I can as I have both Herbert and Burrow in my Dynasty league (and Burrow usually plays at the same time Steelers do, but Chargers usually get that 4:00 slot  Grin), and I see Herbert play. Dude is a winner, just not yet.

Damn I typed a lot.
hahaha
Sorry, Jimmy. Didn't expect to go this far with my reply
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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\\\"I do not have OCD. I know. I\\\'ve checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don\\\'t. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times\\\"<br />David Mitchell
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