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Author Topic: I hate Spider-geddon, Spider-verse; etc. A rant. Enter at your own risk  (Read 437 times)
Jimmy T
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« on: December 28, 2019, 08:57:21 AM »

So, I just finished up the latest PP:Spectacular Spider-man volume that tied it's ending into the 'Spider-geddon' book mark end/sequel of all of Slott's nonsense.

And it's utter nonsense. Trying to give reason or interest to Morlun's brood of 'Inheritors' was all very poor (I read through the first part). I hated Morlun back when JMS introduced him, mostly because I think immediately indestructible cypher characters are boring, flat, lack nuance and depth, and hold no interest for the audience.

Morlun , and his family, are these faux-looking 18th century London wealthy elites. They feed on spider-powered people. They are invincible. Like, entirely invincible, and a 1 trick pony. 'Rahrg, kill a spider!' They are utterly pointless. They don't even stand up as the 'greatest and toughest challenge of our life!' situation. JMS already wrote that...twice. then slott made a family of them for an annoying crossover. And each book is lots of Peter Parkers beating up, then being beaten, then beating up the Morlun's again, but this time it really sticks and they hit harder!! Roll Eyes

Any time any Peter Parker has held back from 'killing' a Morlun, I find the writing to be such hack kneed crap. Morluns are not people. They don't see the error of their ways; they can't. 1 trick ponys have one thing going for them. They are mindless hunters. REading this shlock, I am convinced that Peters would never put down a rabid dog; even a beloved family rabid dog that bit a child. 'I don't kill' fails when the enemy isn't something to be reasoned with. Rabid dogs? Can't reason with them. Morluns? Been shown you can't reason with them.

The WORST deux ex machina is the ending of Spider-geddon; I think they actually did kill all the inheritors, but then cloned them to baby status; but OH, LISTEN to this; Papa Morlun was the original evil vampire, and he turned all his precious babies into more like him, so what happened to them wasn't their vault, and they are victims, and now we've written a way out of all this nonsense.

While also doing the annoying comic book thingy here with leaving Morlun alive yet. Because that was a loose end they didn't finish up.

People complain that all the Superman offshoots are boring; you've got one Kryptonian, you've got them all. For me, that holds true with Spider-man (and Hulk mostly). When there are 1000s the original is watered down, boring, and just uninteresting. And it's not like there's Logan, Daken, Laura, Gaby, James Hudson; those are all different people but still copies. Most of the Spider-verse are all just variant versions of exactly Peter Parker!!! Or May parker!! ARGH Drives me nuts.

This, of course, shows how complex and convuluted human nature is, because I'me a fan of Scarlet Spider and Kaine. Go figure!!!! Cheesy Cheesy
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
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Posts: 12529



« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 05:30:47 AM »

So let me begin by saying I will not defend Slott. I will not do it. Nope. Uh-Uh. No way. The dude has kiled my FF and while I enjoyed his Spider-Man work ... at times ... sporadically, I absolutely understand how he can infuriate a reader, especially a fan, easily enough.

Having said that I also want to say that I stayed away from posting on this for a few days as I wanted to take the time to not come off as just being argumentative. I am NOT trying to do that and sometimes, in my haste to discuss, I can type words that are not the best descriptive. That is not to say that will still not happen, I am me after all and text words are not inflection capable so ...

Okay

I do understand your ire, Jimbo, I do. Now I also don't agree with some of it (shocking yeah?  Cheesy) but that is because I am the odd man out here. What I mean is that I actually like the Morlun thing. Now that does not take away all the truth that you laid out. Each word that you laid before us here is 100% true and accurate when it comes to that/those character(s). But ... yeah ... I just dug the entire idea of the Totem thing ... and boy howdy do I know I am one of maybe a million in that regard  Cheesy but I also liked the idea of them in general. Again, I know and agree they don't work. But hey, we can't control what we enjoy.
 Cheesy
That is just a feeling I wanted to add, to showcase how weird I am.
I agree with you, totally, yet I ... yeah ... I liked them. Odd as that is. Okay. Touched on that one.
 Cheesy

Now onto the other thing I want to say, and this is where I may sound more aggressive than intended ... But I don't understand why it bothers you that Peter refuses to kill these things. To me, it is no different than Superman killing Zod in the movies ... well, in the reverse. I maybe wrong but I think we both agreed that Superman would not have done that. No matter the cost, no matter the pain caused by the inaction, Superman doesn't kill. I have always thought the same for Peter. Is there something that I am missing ... in regards to either the situation or your feelings that makes you feel that Peter killing these Morlun would have been okay? Or did I really screw that entire thing up by misunderstanding your post?
  Cheesy

Hope you take this as the point of discussion it is intended for and not a snarky response. I tried my hardest to not make it so.
 Smiley Cheesy
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"I do not have OCD. I know. I've checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don't. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times"
David Mitchell
Jimmy T
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Posts: 4898



« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2020, 01:28:11 PM »

lol am I that big a loose cannon that you worry about me going off on anything?  Cheesy Wink I hope my rants/reactions make a conversation, that's what I want to see! (I'm worried if I'm going to really like Slott's FF and have to discuss that later. Grin)

I did state this was a rant, which should automatically make this thread one part over-reaction, one-part irrational, one-part sadness on the part of me seeing something he can't enjoy anymore.

It's true I HATED the original Morlum/Totem stuff as it was unfolding. It was a huge break of the origin and lore, and I still question 'for what reason?' What did you give that really made Spider-man that much better?

I continue to argue nothing, but what did like in JMS' conclusion is that Peter says himself 'I don't care if you say I'm a totem spirit, or if it was an accident bite from a weird radioactive spider-I was made into the man I am by my uncle, who I failed once. Because of him-I'm Spider-man. The rest doesn't matter.' <I'm paraphrasing here, and going off old memory impressions.> So, that part pleased me.

And for the most part, or greater part, if the totem Morlun family isn't mentioned ever...then one never have to worry, rant, or be concerned about them ever. It's a story, it happened, it's done, use it, take it, cherish it, or memory dump it and go to the next reading!!

**

Switching gears, I too agree that Peter not killing is just as sacred and tantamount as Superman not killing. But in my upbringing, or at least my thoughts towards the subject, killing happens. Wisconsin farmer, and Wisconsin hunting family here. All the meat we eat is by butchering animals. Semantic argue all you want about 'humane' killing or what have you, but there is pain, blood, and death. Why don't we as humans suffer the moral cracking about so much killing?

Because animals don't add to society. There was never a chicken, who like Thomas Paine, wrote about the free system of government to protect people. No Che Guevera pig who rose up to try to free his people from an oppressive government. No cow has ever painted the Mona Lisa, and sheep has ever moved us with music like Mozart. They don't add to society's growth.

And neither does a Morlun family member. They are simply apex predators. They hunt for self satisfaction of power and hunger. They don't give us art, or philosophy, or greater learning or understanding. Killing them would be the same as killing a rabid coyote or wolf. As dumb as it was, back in the day, the Maximum Carnage storyline irritated the shit out of me for how often they had a chance to kill a symbiote, when not attached to Kasady or Brock, and wouldn't do it because Spidey doesn't kill. Ducking fumb is what I say.

But Spider-geddon showed that with all the cloning of the Morlun's, 'only' Daddy Morlun was that kind of energy vampire, and he made all his children really bad guys, so it wasn't there fault at all! I couldn't help but hurt my head with how much I eye-rolled through that. I can't determine if that was the worst type of deus ex machina, stupid pill prescription, or plain dumb....or even the best example of Spidey finding 'another way.'

In any case, I'm not impressed.

I suppose you could say 'But look, Peter DID find a way to not kill; a better way!' You could say that. The problem I have is that a) it wasn't written well enough to be that satisfactorily a good finish. The arc had the strength of a Paw Patrol coloring book for written merit.  and b) nothing, anywhere, ever, would have led Spidey to believe that this was what he was pursuing. That the original bodies of the Morlun family were innocent souls.

Without going on any further in meandering free form thingking and brain vomit, I'll just reiterate-killing a parasite, or a predator, doesn't to me ever invalidate Superman or Spider-man's, or anyones!-no killing rule.
***
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
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Posts: 12529



« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 07:37:55 AM »

lol am I that big a loose cannon that you worry about me going off on anything?  Cheesy Wink

Hahaha, not at all. I just know, am very aware, of my limited ability to NOT come off as anything but an ass  Grin Wanted to cover myself more than uncover you  Grin

I hope my rants/reactions make a conversation, that's what I want to see! (I'm worried if I'm going to really like Slott's FF and have to discuss that later. Grin)

Yeah, that should be ... interesting  Angry

 Grin

I did state this was a rant, which should automatically make this thread one part over-reaction, one-part irrational, one-part sadness on the part of me seeing something he can't enjoy anymore.

Absolutely. Love your rants. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE them!!!

Keep 'em coming!!!

It's true I HATED the original Morlum/Totem stuff as it was unfolding. It was a huge break of the origin and lore, and I still question 'for what reason?' What did you give that really made Spider-man that much better?

Yep. Totally get that.


Now, in the interest of time and me not having to copy and paste another 8 or 9 times to say this, I will say that I totally understand and get what you mean on everything else you wrote from that last quote to the one below this.
 Grin
So... next!
 Grin

.... it wasn't written well enough to be that satisfactorily a good finish.


I had to stop here and post this one as a quote. Why? Well as I "understood" and got what you meant in all the other stuff you put to post above, this ... THIS is the gist of my contention with Slott in a nutshell. Now I know that is minor aspect of your rant, or I should say not the main point of your rant (the killing that should be taking place), but it is the main thing I can agree with you on.
 Grin

Without going on any further in meandering free form thingking and brain vomit, I'll just reiterate-killing a parasite, or a predator, doesn't to me ever invalidate Superman or Spider-man's, or anyones!-no killing rule.
***

I think, killing a sentient being is the issue. Sure, they are parasites or hell, fungus even ... whatever, but if it talks ... if it has reason (even if that reason is a lone "Must kill"), I think that makes it harder for our heroes (or Marvel/DC) to pull the proverbial and/or actual trigger and put down that which should be put down.

I am not, maybe I should have led with this, disagreeing with you, per se, I do agree with you ... mainly ... but I also like the fact that the no kill mentality is part of Peters character. I mean, there are characters that "kill" the type of threat you are talking about. Dr. Strange is known for not giving two clucks about killing  Grin And there are others or course, but for Peter ... He is like Marvel's Superman in terms of ideology. And I'm glad for it. Even though I prefer, it seems, the characters that do take that leap and wipe out those mo-fos
 Cheesy
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"I do not have OCD. I know. I've checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don't. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times"
David Mitchell
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