Marvel Legacy

[Perry]

Wow Marvel !!! Just wow!!!
52 books in your new relaunch and most are just utter crap.
 

It has to be them punking us all yeah? No way this stuff is real

[Perry]

I really don't know what to say about this. If all this is true, well then yea for Moon Knight continuing (have to try it even with Lemire gone) and hella yea for Marvel Two-N-One returning (one of, if not THE favorite comic when I was younger) and heck, I am even excited (creator dependent) on the new Spirit of Vengeance, but so much here is wrong or at least suspect in this "announcement". Some are personal and some very good points from last nights twitter reading that I saw.

- 52 titles involved in this? Really? It would be okay, and some what tongue in check funny if they were actually only publishing 52 titles, but those listed are only the "Legacy" branded titles. Fir example Runaways is not listed, but we know that is going to start soon, so yeah, Marvel will still (probably) ... (most likely) ... still publish over 90 F'n titles a month even after this "Refreshing new take"

- No creators listed? Okay, some, but very few. Why not hit us with all the information in this dump?

- Axel Alonzo chickened out? It was known, from what Ihear, that Azel was going to go live with some of the later announcements but, and this is also speculation, but once he started hearing of the negative comments on this "Marvel turn around" he quietly backed away from everyone and Marvel just decided to continue the non-hosted title dump.

- Oh, and speaking of creators, as Jurgens pointed out on twitter, Marvel gave absolutely no credit to any of the artist involved in the original covers that this "new and explosive" list of comics copied. Where is the "after ..." or at least a "thanks to ...."?

- Does anyone here think that any of these comics will start below $4 for the first issue? Okay,m maybe Gwenpool or stuff like that, maybe, but there is no way (unless something changes in the next few days) that Marvel is not going to try (and succeed) in getting LCS to buy these and try and get you to pay $4.99 to $5.99 for each issue. Why? Because you guys (not YOU, but you know what I mean ... comic buyers  ) continue to buy the damn things. Marvel gives LCS credit or special pricing to buy these issues so I can't blame them for buying them, if you guys keep paying for them. Sure the LCS owner will pay $1.50 for a $5 comic, he will buy extra even, but if people will just STOP PAYING $5 and more for a freaking comic, the LCS will get tired of having lost all the initial money. Stop buying $5 comics!!!! Just refuse to pay that much.

- Does anyone think Falcon has enough readers to get his own book? Even if it is Sam Wilson that goes back to his suit (and not that ridiculous looking, big eyed dude flying around now) will the Falcon last? Or Black Bolt? And how can Black Bolt AND Royals get "legacy" numbering? One or the other can take the original Inhuman numbering, but not both.

- I had at least two more points of discussion (or disgusting  ) but I can't remember them now as I am still thinking of those people buying $5 and $6 comics
     

[Jimmy T]

Seriously, what the hell is this?

This is changing comics forever?

I know, I know, hyperbole and selling is fine, but what's the point of this?

Cute window dressing and curtains doesn't clean black mold in the cellar or a leaky roof and rusty pipes.

What is here to make anyone care?

at $4.99 or more per issue? (most likely!!)

[Jeff]

Whenever they say "the comic universe will never be the same!" they mean it will never be affordable again.

[Jimmy T]

Whenever they say "the comic universe will never be the same!" they mean it will never be affordable again.

HA! I may mail you a Gold Star sticker. This wins the internet for me today. 

[Perry]

Yep, absolutely. We need to stop people from supporting #4 comics.

Just go look at the top selling Marvel titles over the last month or two. Those $5 comics are their best sellers. If you were still getting the money for a product, wouldn't you still sell it for a higher price? Until the people buying them stop buying them, I don't see a change.

Check APRIL HERE and you can see that out of the 6 top selling Marvel comics, 3 of them were $5
Check MAY HERE and you can see that out of the 6 top selling Marvel comics, 3 of them were $5 and one was $6, their 9th best selling was also $5 and hell, yet another $10 Deadpool comic was in the top 60. Let me type that again, a Deadpool comic, for $10. TEN DOLLARS. One Deadpool comic sold for the price of a first volume Image trade collecting 5 great issues (great depending on the title of course  ).

Not only that, but Marvel bi-weekly comics (X-Men Blue, X-Men Gold and Guardians) priced $25% more than DC bi-weekly offering, are selling pretty well even after their $5 initial offering. In-fact still outselling DC's bi-weekly books not named Batman, Detective, Flash, Superman or Justice League. The others? Like Action Comics, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Nightwing, etc ... all selling less to shops. How long before DC notices this and makes the change?

And of course keep in mind that Marvel has had a habit of shipping titles for free to the shops and skewing the totals, like assholes, but even taking that into consideration having a bunch of comics shipped to your shops for free can't be a bad thing, if you know how to use them. Shops around here are doing a "buy 'this' issue and get 'this issue' free or just pricing the free comics at $1 or so ... making sure they don't lose money at the end, of course. 

And I actually think DC is taking notice as they are starting to price books in the $5 range a lot more as well.

The revolt has to come from the readers!! Stop buying these books priced in this manner!!
 

[Jeff]

My family is temporarily living in an apartment and I had a discussion with my wife that could actually relate to this.  Our complex has free parking out in the open but for $50 a month extra you can park in the parking garage.  The garage is half empty.  My wife said "Why don't they drop the price so more people will park in there and they can make more money?"

I played devil's advocate and gave a hypothetical example:  If they have 20 spots and are selling only 10 of them for $50 then they are getting $500 a month (10 x $50).  If they drop the price to $30 and they get 5 more buyers; 15 spots; then they are now getting $450 per month (15 x $30).  They lowered the price, got more customers, and lost money.

Maybe that's what's happening with comics.  Maybe they can actually make more money now with less readers.   So if people stop buying, the prices will actually go up more?  

[Jimmy T]

Maybe that's what's happening with comics.  Maybe they can actually make more money now with less readers.   So if people stop buying, the prices will actually go up more?  

Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.

[Perry]

Yep, absolutely. We need to stop people from supporting #4 comics.

Okay, man, I screwed this up from the jump.
Of course that was suppose to be $5 comics. Not hashtag 4 comics
 

My family is temporarily living in an apartment and I had a discussion with my wife that could actually relate to this.

Yeah, that could be a portion of it, a good portion, but I honestly think, internet fandom aside, people are just leaving comics in droves because of the way they are sold. Diamond Comics and to a greater extent, Local Comic Shops, are just past their usefulness. Just like publishing companies and newspapers, the paper product is being over run by a digital age. An age where I don't have to worry about damage to the corners, my paper missing or getting wet. The problem with comics are they are trying to still hold onto that niche selling system instead of capitalizing on the true growth industry, the digital system. Sure, there will always be a demand for print, absolutely, but how many books stores not named Barnes & Noble or Amazon are there near you? And heck, Amazon isn't really a book "store".

You always hear that Digital sales only equate to around 8 to 11% of sales, but is that surprising when they are charging the same price as their paper counterparts? What would happen if all these comic publishers suddenly decided to limit the print run of books to only the collected versions (trades and HCs) to sell to the "book stores" ... not LCS, but BOOK STORES and turn the monthly sales solely on digital for $1.50 an issue each Wednesday? Well I think that the customer base would start to rise, the interest for the paper product would be much better and even push the digital side and sales would sky rocket again. But of course all of this would be the end of the LCS. Something, for some reason, no publisher wants.

Not that I want people to go out of business, but hey, look what happened to typewriter repair shops and encyclopedia salesmen ... sometimes your industry dies for the better. Getting comics to digital and cheaper to the public, would be the way to save comics. Stop trying to save the owners and save the industry.

But still a good analogy, Jeff 

Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.

But do you not see that DC will soon do the same? Again, it is crazy to pay that much, but people, the hard core "I gotta have it"s will buy the damn things.

And what do you mean Marvel priced you out?  I know you buy $3.99 comics from DC, so why not Marvel?  (and that is not trying to stir you up, that was made in jest and I know that is hard to discern, yet I am also curious) What is your DC price limit?
 

Hopefully you will never have to find out (nor will I) and they will start that DC Unlimited and we can all stop buying from the big two and just use both of their Unlimited packages.

When I was younger I had an unlimited package. No longer  Now, in-fact, it is a very limited package

[Jeff]

...look what happened to typewriter repair shops and encyclopedia salesmen ... sometimes your industry dies for the better.

Wow.  There is absolutely no way for you to know this but my Dad's entire career was typewriter repair and he owned his own business.  And it's "office machine dealer" not "typewriter repairman" as I was unceremoniously corrected by a mad father at my mistake.   

I spent many a summer in high school typing rooms cleaning those things in the hot Texas weather with no air conditioning.

He always wanted me to take over the business but like you said, times change and the typewriter went away.  Which is why I'm in the computer security business.   

[Perry]

And it's "office machine dealer" not "typewriter repairman" as I was unceremoniously corrected by a mad father at my mistake.   

Yes, you're right, I am sorry.   

(That is funny but I hope he got out in time)

[Jimmy T]

Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.

But do you not see that DC will soon do the same? Again, it is crazy to pay that much, but people, the hard core "I gotta have it"s will buy the damn things.

I'm actually damned paranoid about this happening. At least with Rebirth, they limited the number of titles in name produced, as well as keeping stuff at $2.99. So, I did try a bit more. But the price to enjoyment ratio is always weighing on my mind.

And what do you mean Marvel priced you out?  I know you buy $3.99 comics from DC, so why not Marvel?  (and that is not trying to stir you up, that was made in jest and I know that is hard to discern, yet I am also curious) What is your DC price limit?
 

Oh, I dig the curiosity.

I may even be off on the number of years ago this happened. Go back to the days of Fraction Iron Man, Bru Captain America, Millar then Hickman FF, Pak Hulk, I was really enjoying what was going on in those titles. Now, the big crossovers kept happening, but whatever, I kept ignoring them.

Then, all those books kind of ended at the same time. I HATED Tony being adopted storyline, Romita on Cap was not enjoyable (but I came on afterwards), Hickman was eventually done with FF (but his Avengers were coming after that), and Hulk...might have meandered.

What began to shift was that more and more titles were easily $3.99 all the time. Things were happening in the books that I just didn't like. I mean, sure, I wanted to know right at the time what was happening with Superior Spider-man, but I didn't care about 2 Avengers books at any time from Bendis, and I did not care about 2 X-men books from Bendis either.

There was also just my distrust about what was going on...and my lack of interest at $3.99. It's never been a secret how sour I've been due Spider-man's deal with the devil. That did make me emotionally distrust Marvel-feel the jolted boyfriend, as has been commented before.

And, at the same time, DC always kept more books at $2.99, and then there was New52 for the last 4 years, so I was reading, I was curious, I wanted to keep up. Sure, things pissed me off, or left me disappointed, but there was stuff (that was non Superman) that I just wanted to read.

But when prices would go up, I switched to trades, and waited more for Instocktrades deals, or dropped stuff. That's why I stopped reading monthly Batman, Justice League, and Action (actually, I quit Action twice during New52).

After all, at the end of the day, I think I now only own 4-5 New52 runs. I've sold all the rest. So, DC hasn't escaped my wrath, but DC continues to do small things to keep me excited.

I feel that way about a good many small Marvel things, but the damned event every 8 months just interrupts too much, pretends to upset and make changes when all it does is upset prices and storylines for a while.

And more honestly, Marvel kept way more books at $3.99 than DC, did more event interruptions, and once I realized that I could read or toss away what I didn't like, only 6 months behind due to Unlimited, it was easy to put my fanboydom aside and then just become a general reader.

Oh, it's been hard to come forward at times and show my Marvel excitement. Remender's Cap really helped once Romita left, (actually, I generally enjoyed all Remender's writing-From Uncanny X-force to Uncanny Avengers to Captain America, I got it all traded). Jason Aaron has been consistently awesome the entire time with Thor-for all aspects!! They've got good little books that I really enjoy reading, but Spider-woman for $3.99? Listen, I really enjoy reading this title, but I do not rate the art as something I would pay for. It's interesting, but not captivating. Ant-man is a damn lot of fun, Spencer really did something cool, but again, $3.99 an issue? when I can wait to buy the trade for 40-50% off cover price?

If Marvel doesn't value art, well, then neither will I. That's another part where my interest suffers.

And oh, it's not like all DC art wins the day each time. At all. but I'm liking more of where their characters are than Marvel's, currently (for the most part...until I subjectively change my response later.

So...that's longwinded, but does that make sense without seemingly being biased?

When I was younger I had an unlimited package. No longer  Now, in-fact, it is a very limited package

Self-burn!! 

[Perry]

So...that's longwinded,

Hey, thanks for going into so much detail with your feelings/thoughts.

but does that make sense without seemingly being biased?

Well you ARE biased, but that is okay, I am biased. We are all biased slightly at least. True there are those "Zombies" and whatever DC only fans are called  , but I know the Realm peeps are more centered than that and can and do enjoy books from the other side. From every side. But we still have a bias, no matter how slight, to one or the other. And that is fine. I think it really depends on what heroes or universal feel you enjoy more, right? Especially in your youth. You grew up with more DC love, I grew up with more Marvel love. It doesn't mean we want either to fail, hell, I am sure we want both to do extremely well, and it damn sure doesn't mean we don't find heroes we enjoy from the other side (Batman is my favorite character, period) but liking one "side" slightly more is perfectly fine, buddy. You can sound bias and still get your point across. You're good at it.  Much better than I can.

But with pricing (sorry, went of point there) ... with pricing I have my Marvel limit, for sure, but as I just borrow most of the comics I read or, thanks to a very cool owner, read a few issues at the LCS, I don't feel the effect like most Marvel readers do. So with you, being more a DC guy, I was just wondering ... I guess I was wondering how many titles you would stay on if DC pushed to all $4 comics or, the way it is going, a lot of $5 comics. Would those comics that are now $2.99, be dropped if they hit the $3.99 mark bl-weekly? Would you drop any $3.99 book if it went to that horrendous $5 mark?

It is easy for me to rant and rail against comic pricing, but I have a way around. My anger is not really centered or fair. I know how Jeff buys comics, for the most part, so I was trying to find your "point of 'no'" if you will
 

[Jimmy T]

To drop DC Comics? A price? Well easily enough it's when
It hits 399 an issue with that I have to take pause. I mean double shipping a flash comic threw me off in the title because I didn't think it was that good twice a month. Same with Titans. And yeah, when issues here 399 or higher I look at whether or not I'll pick any more up.

[Jimmy T]

I'm at work and the phone cuts out my longer posts. But yes, DC can just as easily price me out.