DC Relaunch

[Jeff]

Any thoughts on DC's pending title relaunch rumored to come in June?  I'm s it another universe reboot or just a new flood of number one's?

[Perry]

Well we now know that Snyder will be moving over to Detective (with the new news that Batman will now be once every two months now), so maybe a relaunch, maybe, but could be just a new onslaught of number ones sans relaunch as well. I saw where CBR was making the Flash: Rebirth and GL: Rebirth connection to maybe point at the new tweet "Rebirth" by Didio, but that guy ... who knows what he has plans for.
 

All I know is their current lack of cohesion with the entire continuity is not that important is kinda forcing this "shared" universe to go all over the place. I agree you can't hold too tightly to continuity, but to have virtually none is not a good thing either, I think.

EDIT - And of course, like always I misunderstand the word bi-Monthly- Looks like Batman, and others (?) will be coming out twice a month. THAT Bi-Monthly, not the original silver-age version where Bi-Monthly meant every other month, but the twice-monthly style of the likes of Bi-Monthly Amazing Spider-Man and the like.

Yeah, that will do it.

[Jimmy T]

This just about has me spitting teeth.

Will you *fix* things, DC? Will your bullshit redo's and relaunches, retries and do-overs...end? Will you go back to a rich tapestry that was all pre-52, or will you try and moosh all that shit together into another complicated  mess that will blow up 10 years later, like after COIE?

This time....shit, this time I think I'm sitting out. Watch where the dust settles. It's what I'm doing with Marvel. I trust nothing here.

[Perry]

It's just too hard for both companies now.
Their years and years of success and even their pitfalls is just now hard to over come.

If they make things the "way the were", we get tired of the same ole story. Yet if they "try new things", we bitch because they change things. There is no true way to win on a grand scale for either of these companies. Oh sure, you can have successful titles, but there is no true way for them to win, at least in the public internet forum.

You get the obvious disconnect between Thursday internet posters who (like we all have) bitch and moan about one thing or another 400 and then you get the Wednesday buying fans who actually buy the comics and either enjoy them or don't yet just keep buying. Now yes, sometimes, most times, those people are the same. Hell, I have witnessed buyers complaining and still buy the comics they are railing against and I have (and this one is the biggie) witnessed fans saying that title "X" is shit, yet they have never read the damn thing.
 

Regardless, DC is in a no win situation. Even if they "score big" with this ... whatever it is ... relaunch(?) ... over time, when the sales drop back down and more and more people once again complain that this isn't "their comics", we will be right back here again. They (or Marvel) will make a change only to start the process over again.

Up to me, I take Marvel and DC and just update all the old comics, De-Golden or Silver-Age them (kinda what Bendis did with Spidey in Ultimate Universe) and rewrite each comic. Start all over with a remix. Young guys will think it is original and the old guys get their older stories, but updated so it doesn't sound too cheesy. I mean ... deep down, isn't that what everyone wants? Their comic characters and their stories the way we remember them? Heck do it that way and in a few years I can relive my Perez avengers and my Byrne X-Men again. Maybe even get into Warlord more this time around.
 

I am enjoying a lot of Marvel titles right now, but there is nothing over there that is THAT original. That is not a knock, some of it, heck ... again, a lot of it, is still really well done, but in reality, is it THAT different? Daredevil is now a court prosecutor and he has a sidekick now, but is this story that different from when he was a public defender and had Black Widow around? Sure, parts, but we've been here. Iron Man has another armor, yep, been there many times and is it just a matter of time before he's back to the bottle? Inhumans are hated by the world instead of the X-Men but the basis is the same. It's all been done and done to death

And if ... when DC gets turned around it will be the same there. Sure, the stories will be better, but will they not be just the same thing again? If they even take the huge step of returning Wally as Flash, wouldn't we get tired of those stories as well after awhile? Sure. SOme writer will come on and do something to piss off the readers of that title and we get what we have again. It is just the way of the beast.

The big two has been publishing stories for years upon years. The stories ... they are just hard to tell an original story now.

I'm not condemning ANYONE for their feelings, please know that, I am just as guilty as anyone here, I've bitched and bitched, but ya know what, I am trying now to make a conscious effort to not be negative about comics anymore. It's just not fun to do so. Why do it any longer?

I enjoy the hell out of what I am reading. If I don't, I stop and move to a title I do enjoy, but the idea of getting BACK to any era of comics, especially from the big two ... eh, I don't care. But I'm just rambling again. Shocker, I know.
 

And just because I am placing this right behind a Jimmy comment does not mean this is in response to his comment. It is not. At worse it was just a trigger to say something I've been meaning to say for awhile now. This is not directed at him. It's just ... ya know ... he's tired, I get it.
 

I feel it too.

But I'm not letting it get to me anymore. Jimmy is doing the right thing. The correct thing. Cutting back or falling away from the medium he feels has left him behind. It's smart. But for me, I'm still enjoying this crap. Not too much DC though, and I know that is the main point of Jimmy's ire, I understand and feel for him.
 

But Jimmy, I just hope you find enjoyment elsewhere. It doesn't have to be Valiant  , and it sure doesn't have to be Marvel, but there are still really good comics out there, buddy. I hope you have the will left in ya to find them. I know DC is kinda crushing your resolve.
 
But again, they keep raising the price and we ... yes we ... keep bitching about the quality. Sometimes it is just time.
 

[Perry]

And this Relaunch rumor is becoming more and more a reality now as I have heard that Titans Hunt, originally a 12 issue maxi-series, will now be shortened to 8 issues.
 

Damn it, there goes any hope of a great ending of that series.

Damn it, there goes my decision to not bitch anymore.
 

Okay ... I meant to say, inquisitively with no malice - I wonder how they will end the series now?  

And this isn't a complaint as much as an opinion, but if DC tries to bring in more of their TV and movie world into their comics, I will be reading less DC than I am now. I mean, good on 'em, but I have no interest in watching ARROW, must less reading it and Flash is fine where he is as well. I hope they don't make THAT the Flash comic. I am just curious as to what they mean by tying in more TV and Movie properties ... ?? Hopefully not as replacements.

And please don't cancel Grayson just to bring back Nightwing.
Please.
 

[Jimmy T]

See, Perry, you too can write a thesis as needed!

That said, there is one quote from your letter that I wish to highlight on:

There is no true way to win on a grand scale for either of these companies.

I say; quit doing grand scale. 

Now, true, it may be hard for the superstars of Superman, Batman, and Spider-man, but man, quit with the grand scale.

Here's where I'll blow your minds.

Ready?

Here it comes.

Follow Bendis' example.

(waits for Perry to get back up off the floor)

By this, I mean, look at his Daredevil. It's not a company altering event, but an exploration of events that occur within his life. The other titles that do well like this? Brubaker's Iron Fist. Spencer's Ant-Man. Hawkeye. Lemire's Green Arrow.

I say go even smaller to show how large your hero can fill the space. I know I've said this before, but here's how I'd do it.

***

The world continues on around our heroes. We, as viewers, now watch the world to see how our heroes react. Jimmy Olsen was homeless once and sleeping in the Planet's janitor rooms. Peter watched as his "enemy" photog Nick Katzenberg got lung cancer. Didn't Pepper and Happy lose a baby together before Happy eventually died?

I'll say that this is how you keep comics interesting (for the Big Two). Captain America was, honestly, garbage most days before Brubaker took over. He brought in the super spy stuff, the re-emergence of Bucky as the Winter Soldier, and we watched how the Star-Spangled Avenger dealt with this new world of counter-terrorism and military strikes when it came up against his hero persona paradigm. And it was great.

I'd like to say that there are always stories to tell. I mean, Batman and Superman have been doing it since 1938. Is 77 years the 'end' of their original stories? I mean, Batman in the last 4 years has been AMAZING (okay, Zero Year ran a little long ). But, I think the tales are still there.

Now, this DC REBIRTH mantra...I'm really forgiving. I've got 2 friends that I continually go to bat for as good friends, stalwarts to me, rocks in friendships...but they keep cancelling events I plan with them...don't get back to me with emails or phone calls....disappoint me when they don't follow through with their intentions...but...sadly, no more.

I've changed my attitude towards them. I've moved 'my' part of the relationship past them. Oh sure, they are buddies, always easy to talk to when we get together, but not part of my life is significant when I consider if they can make it, or what they'll think of it. They aren't..important to me anymore.

I think DC just moved right alongside Marvel now in that regard. "oh, you're doing what? hey, that's cool man. Sure, I'll check it out! Put it out there, I'll give it a look-see and tell ya what I think. But hey, good for you guys!"

****

One, I hope I can love it. But I'll watch it now.

Two-I buy the shit out of Valiant now.

Three-I just bought all 3 issues of Huck. Totally dug it! I think I may pick up some more from Millarworld. (At least, Jupiter's legacy and Superior now that it's done. What Ellis or Ennis or Moore stuff have I missed? Or Morrison?

Four-there is more Image stuff that I look to try, and I've followed a few writers to their small stuff. (Just read Remender's Devolution. Sorry Rick, you lost me when you used the supposed "god spot" in brains as your story vehicle. A plot point I'm jumping off of.)

But like you say, Perry, there are those that bitch but still buy. Complain, but still endorse. At least I know that I (and many of us) are starting to say 'no, enough is enough' and stopping bitching by stopping buying.

[Perry]

I am off to watch the newest Flash episode I have recorded, so I didn't read the entire thing yet, Jimmy, but I did read up to the "grand scale" part and I think I may have led you in the wrong direction ... I meant on a grand scale of reader approval, NOT on a grand scale story wise.

That may not be a big deal to what you are saying, I will have to find out later as I am heading back to the tv, but ... yeah ... that is what I meant by that.

[Jimmy T]

I am off to watch the newest Flash episode I have recorded, so I didn't read the entire thing yet, Jimmy, but I did read up to the "grand scale" part and I think I may have led you in the wrong direction ... I meant on a grand scale of reader approval, NOT on a grand scale story wise.

That may not be a big deal to what you are saying, I will have to find out later as I am heading back to the tv, but ... yeah ... that is what I meant by that.

Ah...well, then I have a different tangent to the situation then.

I essentially just wrote to what I want to see in comics then.

[Perry]

Let me try again ...
 

One - the big two have been around so long that all they do is recycle stories around characters.
 I am not saying I hate them all, I still buy, just saying that is what it is. Sure, on the outside some of the stories may seem new, but deep down it is all the same primarily. Planet Hulk had been done well before it stormed to fandoms enjoyment. It was just he was placed in another dimension instead of that Planet Hulk. Yes, okay, nothing is absolute. Every now and then an original idea will happen, of course, that is why there have been so many writers, but for the characters themselves ... the song remains the same most of the time. Just too much damn history with characters like Spider-Man, Batman, Superman ...

Two - I forgot what two was going to be.   I just got up, so ....

*ahem*

Anyway, I'm not saying there can't be good original stories (check out the recent title VISION for one hell of a new take), but I'm just saying mostly ... mostly ... it has all been done. And also ... OH YEAH !!! I remember ....

Two -    .... The people will still complain on the internet about whatever the big two do because they can never satisfy the majority of people on the net. The Internet fans are always so boisterous just have to bitch and complain no matter what happens. The big two will never capture the "Make Mine Marvel" fanfare online. The net, and its anonymity just gives the "fans" too much voice and too little chance at repercussions.
 

(Please note,  again,  I am not talking about you in any of this. Your comments only reminded me of something I have been thinking for a few. I realize you are not the typical comic book, internet poster. I am talking about the posters on sites like CBR and the like)
 

But anyway ... time to see what else has been posted around here !!  

[Jimmy T]

Oh good lord, with the internet, there's no way anyone would be Merrily Marching to the Make Mine Marvel song. No way! 

[Perry]

 

[Perry]

Bleeding Cool is gonna have a lot of news today it seems.

Already stated Batman #1 will be right after a Batman "Rebirth" issue and then go every two weeks. A little "Copy Pasta" here from them ...

In February, Batman #49
In March, Batman #50
In April, Batman #51
In May, Batman #52
In the first half of June – either Batman #Rebirth or Batman Rebirth #1
In the second half of June, Batman #1
In the first half of July, Batman #2
In the second half of July, Batman #3.

 

[Jimmy T]

So, just reading everything, this is what my brain spit out-

"Holy shit. DC is just imploding."

I mean, seriously, what the hell is going on? Isn't this what Convergence should have done? Of course not, that was essentially Assistant Editor Month at DC to do fill ins for the move to the west coast.

Should I be excited? What in the hell for? All I can think of is stuff that has been scrapped after a build up here and there in the New 52. Remember Lois Lane's one time live in blonde boyfriend? Of course not! How about the fact that they essentially caused George Perez to beat a path away due to such interefernce by issue #4 of 'Superman'?

Where has been the 7 Seas War of Atlantis in Aquaman? In Aquaman's title or the Justice League, I should say.

Notice how quickly Q-Corp and the media mogul aspect of Oliver Queen was jettisioned due to how poor that title was received by issue #8?

Wonder Woman has been turned into a ripe mess the moment Azzarello left. (okay, this may not be true, as I've ditched it after 3 issues of the Finches. But reviews I read do not find the title favorable either).

Remember Stormwatch, Demon Knights, Hawkman, or any of the other characters they tried to bring out to make the New 52 a little better?

All I see is a big blast of confusion. If those facebook commentaries from comics retailers reposted on Bleeding Cool are any indication of the true mass thinking of this, DC will seriously be hurting after Rebirth. I see it as a jumping off point as well.

[Perry]

Okay, so from what I am hearing from a couple podcasts and seeing from BC and the like, I may be jumping back into DC pretty heavy again once the relaunch hits. It appears as though, and this could all be wrong of course, that -

Prior to relaunch, all number one titles will receive a Rebirth #1. So ... yeah ... more money 

Lots of Harley Quinn, but I care little to nothing about her so ... yeah ... lots of her it seems.

JSA will return and no longer be ignored. Rumored Johns return here. Hmmmm Maybe.

Grayson will end but Nightwing will return AND he will be back in blue and not that ridiculous 'Aim and shoot here' red

Midnighter will end but Authority will return. Hopefully with the same creative. That's great!!!

Green Lantern will end but will return as Green Lantern and the GL Corps with Hal being just a space cop again. Yay!!!

Starfire will end but Titans will return. Not sure if this is the same title Damien will be in.

Teen Titans will end and relaunch with Damien as leader of the team. Not sure if this is the same team with Starfire

Superman/Wonder Woman and Batman/Superman will now be canceled but relaunched into Trinity #1

Superman (or Action or both) #1 will be written by Tomasi. (Already started with the latest solicits)

Detective #1 with Snyder - Says it frees him to not be so tied into main DC and can tell harsher/stranger stories

Batman #1 with Tom King (??) - that is what one podcast claims. While I hope so, I also fear it will stifle King

Lots more, but I now have to go ...
 

[Jeff]

Prior to relaunch, all number one titles will receive a Rebirth #1. So ... yeah ... more money 

For some reason I don't mind this.  I'll only get the Rebirth issues of the titles I'm curious about of course but could be fun.

Lots of Harley Quinn, but I care little to nothing about her so ... yeah ... lots of her it seems.

I'll save money here.  No interest either.

JSA will return and no longer be ignored. Rumored Johns return here. Hmmmm Maybe.

Yeah, I'll be on this.  Loved John's JSA and will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Grayson will end but Nightwing will return AND he will be back in blue and not that ridiculous 'Aim and shoot here' red

As much as I like Nightwing I'm not happy about this.  I really love what is going on in the Grayson title.  I hate to lose that.  I'll still try Nightwing out but I will miss Grayson.

Midnighter will end but Authority will return. Hopefully with the same creative. That's great!!!

I'll give Authority a chance.  I have the first few issues of Midnighter but haven't got to them yet. But I suspect I will like it as it ties into Grayson.  That bodes well for Authority since it is the same creative team.

Green Lantern will end but will return as Green Lantern and the GL Corps with Hal being just a space cop again. Yay!!!

I'm excited about this.  I may be back on GL after a long hiatus.

Starfire will end but Titans will return. Not sure if this is the same title Damien will be in.

Teen Titans will end and relaunch with Damien as leader of the team. Not sure if this is the same team with Starfire

I'll always give a new Titans title a shot if it has my old characters in it.  If they combine the old and new together into one title that could be interesting also.  I'm interested in hearing more and will likely give it try.  Damien and Starfire together could be interesting to see since they are so different.

Superman/Wonder Woman and Batman/Superman will now be canceled but relaunched into Trinity #1

I'll pass.  Could be great but I'm not interested.

Superman (or Action or both) #1 will be written by Tomasi. (Already started with the latest solicits)

Love Tomasi but I'll wait to hear what others say before dropping some $$$.

Detective #1 with Snyder - Says it frees him to not be so tied into main DC and can tell harsher/stranger stories

Got kind of tired of Snyder on Batman but I won't be able to resist this.  Especially if Bruce is back in Bat.

Batman #1 with Tom King (??) - that is what one podcast claims. While I hope so, I also fear it will stifle King

I'll probably try this out as well.


On some of these I might wait a few months for when Comixology drops the prices to $1.99.  Otherwise I might as well go back to DCBS.