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Author Topic: Thoughts on DC New 52 at This Point  (Read 11011 times)
EmeraldWarrior420
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« on: June 20, 2013, 08:06:52 PM »

I'm curious to see what everyone's thoughts are on DC's New 52 now that we're this far into it? We're at a point where all the shiny newness should have worn off.

So, what do you guys think?
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Jeff
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2013, 09:16:32 PM »

I'm actually reading a LOT less DC since the changeover.  I didn't like all the changes in history.  I don't know if it brought on new readers or not but I'm pretty sure they lost a lot of us old timers.

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“If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?”- Kevin Smith
EmeraldWarrior420
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 11:46:24 PM »

I'm not happy with it just because it's not MY DC Universe. I am familiar with that world and those characters, and I liked that. I don't know these new characters. And while my favorite books, the Green Lantern books, were barely chaged at all, it seemed the stories weren't as good as they were before the change.

That said, I am still enjoying the Green Lantern books, nonetheless, even if they aren't quite as good as they were before. And I'm enjoying Earth 2. However, things seem a little slow-moving in Earth 2.

Justice League I didn't like. It didn't feel like it lived up the title. The artwork is absolutely phenomenal. But the stories just seem kind of simplistic to me. I expect bigger and badder threats with the JL. Superman is, well, average. It's not bad, but it's not particularly good.

I haven't been following Batman or Wonder Woman. But I did just start on Batman with the first issue to Batman: Year Zero, which wasn't bad.

Captain Atom and Firestorm I wish I had followed. But on the bright side, it won't be hard to track down the back-issues since those books were already cancelled. I did get the first couple issues of both books, but then cut them due to my budget and trying to limit my comic purchases.
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Jeff
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 11:35:32 AM »

One of my biggest gripes was how they rebooted Cyborg in Justice League.  Basically deleted all of the Marv Wolfman/George Perez Teen Titans history.  They also got rid of Wally West Flash which was one of my favorite characters.

Like you said, not my DC universe anymore.

Batman wound up being one of the few gems to come out of it.  Scott Snyder has done a great job with that title.  The Court of Owls story arc was one of the best arcs.  Legion of Super Heroes wasn't bad story wise but the art is bad.  Suicide Squad was pretty good but eventually I couldn't get past the Shark guy and cut it when I redid my budget.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 11:37:53 AM by Jeff » Logged

“If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?”- Kevin Smith
sinisteri
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 06:15:15 PM »

Most of you know I still hate it.

I think DC loss tons of seasoned fans who were very good for spending lots of dollars on multiple issues of characters they had come to know. Young and new readers don't invest like that.

I still read GL, but it is not the same. Found it disturbing that the Guardians seemed unaware the universe was altered.

I read WW, but close to dropping. This character is an amazon from a rapist myrdering society who only has one adventure to watch over one baby. And that one adventure seems to never end.

I have enjoyed JL Dark, Constatine, and temporarily Animal & Swamp Thing.

I feel DC is a big mess right now with no character integrity or potential to produce good stories like Judas Contract, Identity Crisis, GL/Green Arrow, the Anatomy Lesson, or Sandman.

I miss reading more DC. I still do not like New 52 or understand what it has achieved to better DC.
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Jeff
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 05:28:16 PM »

Any thoughts on what DC needs to do to make us like their universe again?

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“If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?”- Kevin Smith
EmeraldWarrior420
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 08:38:33 PM »

Any thoughts on what DC needs to do to make us like their universe again?



We all have to be 20 years younger.
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Perry
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 06:02:21 PM »

Any thoughts on what DC needs to do to make us like their universe again?



Let writers write the stories that were approved and, more importantly, get the WB out of the DC.

I know editorial changes are part of the process, but DC is just going over board allowing higher ups to change story points, issue flow and entire plot-lines on a whim. No company can produce a balanced and/or a cohesive universe when the creators are being told 89 different things in 30 days and having their stories changed countless times.

Just look at the recent Jenkins interview. A mere peek at the DC dis-functionality.
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"I do not have OCD. I know. I've checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don't. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times"
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sinisteri
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 06:44:43 PM »

20 years younger.. hmm..?

Not sure that would really do it. Consistency and cohesiveness plays a big part for me. I would be jarred by the fact that WW is so different in JL than she is in her own book. When I actually started collecting comics in the early 80s, I was very absorbed in learning the history of the characters. This was before DC's Who's Who or I realized Marvel had their first encyclopedia. If I had the same mindset today, DC's history of constant change over the last several decades would make me leery of following them either from confusion or fear that DC was just gonna change again in the next few years by erasing what I currently like, and doing it abruptly.

It is funny, that the new 52 achieves making all the characters young and almost wiping the board of any older or senior characters unless they are evil or untrustworthy-- the Guardians of the Universe, the council that created Phantom Stranger, etc. It seems they are no mentors over 30.

THE FIX: I honestly am not sure anymore. It's like fighting with someone you have been in love with for a very long time. You know why you loved them in the first place and for most of the years, but now you have been fighting so long that all you can see is the mess there is.

I want DC to remember that WW is more than an angry amazon only concerned with gods and their games. Her creator gave her so many tools and elements with which to work, and the biggest missed opportunity is showing why she is the first woman of DC who has & actually cares about her own sisterhood all over the world. I want them to stop killing Robins because it makes Batman look really bad for putting young boys in that position to be killed. The New Teen Titans from the best era(Perez & Wolfman) would have to exist. That era perfectly blending some many elements of DC old and new to craft a world full of potential. They were written as mature or maturing, intelligent young adults.

The challenge for writers is not retelling thrice told tales with their own little touches as revolutionary, but making something meaningful out of what they have to work with. The only thing the DC leadership should do is edit to make things fit together and simply make suggestions with writers may option or work in naturally over time. And please stop trying titles with characters no one asked for(VIBE). Lastly, remember that the 90s have passed along with some of the costume designs.

I miss DC proper.
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A man is the sum of his memories,
A Time Lord even moreso.
EmeraldWarrior420
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »

20 years younger.. hmm..?

It was more of a joke aimed at the fact that DC is trying to bring in new readers at the expense of their loyal fanbase.
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sinisteri
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 04:59:38 AM »

Oh, I gotcha!

No one is over 30 in DCU. Even long lived or immortals or twenty something now.
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A Time Lord even moreso.
Perry
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 01:55:58 PM »

... And please stop trying titles with characters no one asked for(VIBE).

Disagree with you here, Sin. Bringing in new characters or titles is a must for any company. Part of the problem with the big two is stagnant storytelling. It is good to light the fire under lesser known or not often used characters and get them out there, even if the buying public refuses to buy that which is out of the norm.

And from what I have been hearing, VIBE is easily one of DC best written books right now. It is hitting almost everyone's top five list. Everyone is really liking that book.

Doesn't mean it will last, but the fact that it is getting praise is a good thing.

The fact that it is a minority book is another good thing ... although ... it seems to be the big push in comics right now. Not saying it is not needed, but I do hate they are obviously pushing a race/sex agenda in comics right now. Hell Marvel has an all woman X-book and getting ready to have an all black character book (with a little women thrown in).

Again, not complaining, as it is more than time for it, but I wish they were doing it because it is past time for it and not just to be so obvious with the "LOOK WHAT WE ARE DOING!!". It just almost cheapens the books that they are being so brazen with the reasoning behind them.

But, hey, whatever gets them out there.
 Smiley

Lastly, remember that the 90s have passed along with some of the costume designs.

Amen to that. I would also add some of their 90's writers as well.
 Wink
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"I do not have OCD. I know. I've checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don't. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times"
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sinisteri
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2013, 03:00:04 PM »

This is the only time I have heard Vibe was doing well.

Ok with trying lesser known characters, but DC's cancellation of multiple titles does not seem to show a strong market for the current course. Sales figures do not seem to be growing overall, and in the end-- sales will make or break any company.

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A man is the sum of his memories,
A Time Lord even moreso.
Perry
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2013, 03:06:42 PM »

This is the only time I have heard Vibe was doing well.

Ok with trying lesser known characters, but DC's cancellation of multiple titles does not seem to show a strong market for the current course. Sales figures do not seem to be growing overall, and in the end-- sales will make or break any company.



Well I am NOT saying that VIBE is doing well (sales wise), I am just hearing from most everyone that it is a very good book (Check out all the comic sites ... they really seem to like it)

Sales and trends should NEVER be a reason to not try a new approach. Look at Marvel's HAWKEYE. No reason to have that book published and there was certainly no demand for it, but it is now flying off the shelves and getting an oversized HC already. Sometimes, not often, but sometimes the risk pays off.

 Smiley
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"I do not have OCD. I know. I've checked. Three or four hundred times and I definitely don't. I stopped myself from catching it by washing my hands an even number of times"
David Mitchell
sinisteri
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2013, 06:16:19 PM »

Perry,

I hear and understand your overall point. In the character's defense, Hawkeye has enjoyed a longer and healthier shelf life in comics history than Vibe ever has. People know who Hawkeye is from the recent Avengers movie. I know both characters, and I was not missing Vibe from the hero network. To be fair, he was seen in one of the Sat morning DC shorts.

I applaud DC's effort for diversity, but I find it strange that the most recent diversity seems a little forced to me. DC had diversity with the female Dr. Light, Black Lightning, Obsidian, Batwoman, and tons of characters from Milestone amongst others. To me, diverse characters who have been around for years and underused speaks more to me about DC's diversity than a gimmick decision to make Earth 2(not even golden age) GL gay or bringing back an 80s character tied heavily to breakdancing.

DC attempts to say its diverse with quick gimmicks and throwaway character bites. To come back to main theme of thread, DC ahould be diverse in writers and consistent output of characters and titles.

I want great stories, memorable characters the public can talk about other than Supes/Bats for more than two seconds or one quick headline, and more DC titles in the top 20.

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A man is the sum of his memories,
A Time Lord even moreso.
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