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MARVEL COMICS => MARVEL UNLIMITED & COLLECTED EDITIONS => Topic started by: Jimmy T on August 28, 2017, 01:55:07 AM

Title: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Jimmy T on August 28, 2017, 01:55:07 AM
So, that's Kingpin (which I really liked!), Elektra (which, I can never read this character, as I really cannot stand her AT ALL), and Bullseye.

Let's discuss Bullseye #1

There is a tremendous part of me that is just...sickened with this beginning. It's Tarentino-esque; meaning to show how much of a BAMF Bullseye is, he is shown over the top in his tendencies, with aim and murder.

In the office talking with his agent, Bullseye continues to shoot paperclip after paperclip out the window

-(interlude: okay, this is done to death; that he can murder anyone with anything with perfect accuracy. It was stunning with the playing card on Elektra back Miller's run, but now it's a ridiculous thing where every use of it feels like a caricature of the character, like reading a Lobo comic-which is SUPPOSED to do that!) end interlude-

causing mayhem and murder after murder.

Seriously, it's disgusting. In comics, where we are treated to scene after scene of heroes arriving on the scene to do what normal mortals can't do and save the day, we are lead to believe that in those moments that everyone's life is sacred and important. That death is not deserved by anyone.

Bullseye just killed dozens of people in sick fun. And gets away. And will always get away because you can't kill a great antagonist from a monthly serial company. So, those people are all simply murdered on a whim. Families will be without answers, justice, revenge, or closure. It's a scene set up to show how 'kewl' Bullseye is, and how dangerous he is, but frankly, I find it a deplorable use for the character, even one as depraved as Bullseye is. I find it a horrible misuse for a writer to show how extinguishable human life, and that is can be a silly joke and fun when presented from the villain's perspective.


I'm not even sure I should take this angle when reading, should have some kind of reaction to what you read/watch. Do you enjoy it? Why or why not? What about it is enjoyable; what about it makes you come back for more?

Would this single issue be something I would share with a newb who may want to start comics? Would I share this with my wife and hope she likes it? Would I want my son to eventually read this book as an example of what kind of comics you should follow?

I seriously questioned finishing the issue.

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Jeff on August 28, 2017, 06:24:04 PM
I agree with you, Jimmy.  I thought that scene was disgusting too.  It did not make me think Bullseye is "cool" at all.  So unnecessary for the story, which I remember liking at the time but I can't remember anything else that happened other than that scene now.   :-\

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Perry on August 28, 2017, 06:44:35 PM
Okay, I kinda go the other way here. Bullseye is an evil, non-caring, villain that ENJOYS killing.
That has always been his MO. Not only does he do it to make money, he just flat out loves doing it. That is what I took away from that window scene. This is not a guy that thinks about people or thinks about outcomes. He is a lover of chaos and a guy that loves killing.

He is not the Punisher. A guy that kills for a reason. He is not a mercenary (even though he is hired as one all the time). He is a guy that loves killing who occasionally gets paid to do it.

And for them trying to make Bullseye seem cool ... I don't think they were trying to say that. They tried to show just what Bullseye is at his core and his core is Manson with a different etching on his forehead. It was, to me, a good representational of Bullseye, a man with no soul. A man that loves the idea of murder and murdering people.

Just may take ... as I remember it. I could be wrong

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Jimmy T on August 28, 2017, 06:58:38 PM
Perry, you're not wrong but I'm not right either. I honestly just wanted to have a conversation about this to see what you guys thought about it. Are my thoughts too harsh? Am i going too deep with my angle?  He is that kind of psychopath, but to that extreme? I thought the ending was perfect bullseye, but that beginning...

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Perry on August 29, 2017, 01:13:12 AM
Oh I hope I didn't come on like I was defending the book and not your right to opinion. I was just also trying to join in the talk
I just thought giving Bullseye's history, that him doing such a thing as killing random passersby for the sheer fun and/or entertainment of it was not out of the realm of correct writing for the character. but then again, I really only read the one issue and it was awhile back so I could very well be remembering the entire scene wrong.

I should have just stuck with the "I don't remember anything getting to me when I read it"

All good!!!

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Jimmy T on August 29, 2017, 02:13:38 AM
Sorry if I had a perceived tone, or you registered a perceived tone in my response Perry; I'm glad you responded the way you did! :)
I'm happy with your response! :)

Let me say this and see if there's some agreement to this:

I agree Bullseye likes to kill for the act of killing. However, I also think he likes to kill when it makes someone hurt even more. Killing girlfriends in front of Matt? Just awesome! Pretending to be a Hawkeye, and kill anyone he faces and letting everyone around him know he can do it? Oh yes, he'll play the hero any day.

But there's a small part of me that believes he wouldn't necessarily kill so indiscriminately. Not that he believes himself to be some kind of ...of creme de la creme killer, or that his talents are far above certain kills, but that killing in such a manner as he did in the first issue would be...just a waste of time, and really, not even be something enjoyable.

Like, stepping on ants. You'll always win. What's the point of that? I want to partially believe this stance I've put out, but maybe I even have a hard time buying into it.

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Perry on August 29, 2017, 10:20:47 AM
No, no, I get ya  Smiley If that is how it hit you then that is how it hit you. I can see how you would/could feel that. Feel that Bullseye would just scoff at the idea of killing without the joy of also seeing the emotional reaction to the act and the "why bother" aspect. The ant analogy was a good one.

I now understand your thoughts on the subject and that is why we talk, right?  Grin

I still lean more towards the other, though very similar, that killing is fun, but for a reason. Not only does he receive immediate gratification from the act, but also what happens later. That killing causes chaos and THAT is the goal. That he enjoys killing because of the joy and future outcome, regardless of who sees it. Likes it because it brings chaos and he knows that when he walks away, in his demented head, he knows the lives that remain are ruined or at the least left in turmoil.

Manson is one guy I always think of when I see Bullseye. I think it just fits. He enjoys the kill, but relishes in the outcome. I can't get Manson out of my head when I read Bullseye now. Of course, I can't say I always have felt that way. Does Miller's Bullseye read as Manson to me? It has been so long and I am so drugged now I have no idea Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy That would be a cool thing for me to do ... go back and see how early Bullseye hits for me. One day when my reading list goes down maybe.

But hey, getting back to this, the neat thing is that is how you see and that is how I see Bullseye ... different, but not far apart.  Smiley Just like writers see characters different (and sometimes we readers are totally lost in understanding how the hell some of those writers could see some of those character in that light  Cheesy Cheesy) we are allowed to see characters our way as well. How they "seem" to us makes it all the more personal. And that is not only perfectly fine, it is perfectly cool.

Thanks for diving deeper in the convo!!!!!

Title: Re: "Running with the Devil" tagged books
Post by: Jeff on August 31, 2017, 03:59:34 PM
Elektra 1

I likey. Should be fun seeing Elektra go up against this villain.

I like the art too EXCEPT...
For how he draws Arcade.  Looks like a punk kid.  Not liking that.

Drops to a 7 out of 10 SAI's because of the spoiler.