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MARVEL COMICS => MARVEL GENERAL TOPICS => Topic started by: Perry on June 23, 2017, 04:41:09 PM



Title: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 23, 2017, 04:41:09 PM
Wow Marvel !!! Just wow!!!
52 books in your new relaunch and most are just utter crap.
 :D :D

It has to be them punking us all yeah? No way this stuff is real


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 24, 2017, 07:11:09 AM
I really don't know what to say about this. If all this is true, well then yea for Moon Knight continuing (have to try it even with Lemire gone) and hella yea for Marvel Two-N-One returning (one of, if not THE favorite comic when I was younger) and heck, I am even excited (creator dependent) on the new Spirit of Vengeance, but so much here is wrong or at least suspect in this "announcement". Some are personal and some very good points from last nights twitter reading that I saw.

- 52 titles involved in this? Really? It would be okay, and some what tongue in check funny if they were actually only publishing 52 titles, but those listed are only the "Legacy" branded titles. Fir example Runaways is not listed, but we know that is going to start soon, so yeah, Marvel will still (probably) ... (most likely) ... still publish over 90 F'n titles a month even after this "Refreshing new take"

- No creators listed? Okay, some, but very few. Why not hit us with all the information in this dump?

- Axel Alonzo chickened out? It was known, from what Ihear, that Azel was going to go live with some of the later announcements but, and this is also speculation, but once he started hearing of the negative comments on this "Marvel turn around" he quietly backed away from everyone and Marvel just decided to continue the non-hosted title dump.

- Oh, and speaking of creators, as Jurgens pointed out on twitter, Marvel gave absolutely no credit to any of the artist involved in the original covers that this "new and explosive" list of comics copied. Where is the "after ..." or at least a "thanks to ...."?

- Does anyone here think that any of these comics will start below $4 for the first issue? Okay,m maybe Gwenpool or stuff like that, maybe, but there is no way (unless something changes in the next few days) that Marvel is not going to try (and succeed) in getting LCS to buy these and try and get you to pay $4.99 to $5.99 for each issue. Why? Because you guys (not YOU, but you know what I mean ... comic buyers  ;D) continue to buy the damn things. Marvel gives LCS credit or special pricing to buy these issues so I can't blame them for buying them, if you guys keep paying for them. Sure the LCS owner will pay $1.50 for a $5 comic, he will buy extra even, but if people will just STOP PAYING $5 and more for a freaking comic, the LCS will get tired of having lost all the initial money. Stop buying $5 comics!!!! Just refuse to pay that much.

- Does anyone think Falcon has enough readers to get his own book? Even if it is Sam Wilson that goes back to his suit (and not that ridiculous looking, big eyed dude flying around now) will the Falcon last? Or Black Bolt? And how can Black Bolt AND Royals get "legacy" numbering? One or the other can take the original Inhuman numbering, but not both.

- I had at least two more points of discussion (or disgusting  :D) but I can't remember them now as I am still thinking of those people buying $5 and $6 comics
  >:(  ::)  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 25, 2017, 07:30:50 AM
Seriously, what the hell is this?

This is changing comics forever?

I know, I know, hyperbole and selling is fine, but what's the point of this?

Cute window dressing and curtains doesn't clean black mold in the cellar or a leaky roof and rusty pipes.

What is here to make anyone care?

at $4.99 or more per issue? (most likely!!)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on June 25, 2017, 06:33:47 PM
Whenever they say "the comic universe will never be the same!" they mean it will never be affordable again.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 25, 2017, 06:43:14 PM
Whenever they say "the comic universe will never be the same!" they mean it will never be affordable again.

HA! I may mail you a Gold Star sticker. This wins the internet for me today.  :D


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 26, 2017, 03:59:41 AM
Yep, absolutely. We need to stop people from supporting #4 comics.

Just go look at the top selling Marvel titles over the last month or two. Those $5 comics are their best sellers. If you were still getting the money for a product, wouldn't you still sell it for a higher price? Until the people buying them stop buying them, I don't see a change.

Check APRIL HERE (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-04.html) and you can see that out of the 6 top selling Marvel comics, 3 of them were $5
Check MAY HERE (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2017/2017-03.html) and you can see that out of the 6 top selling Marvel comics, 3 of them were $5 and one was $6, their 9th best selling was also $5 and hell, yet another $10 Deadpool comic was in the top 60. Let me type that again, a Deadpool comic, for $10. TEN DOLLARS. One Deadpool comic sold for the price of a first volume Image trade collecting 5 great issues (great depending on the title of course  ;D).

Not only that, but Marvel bi-weekly comics (X-Men Blue, X-Men Gold and Guardians) priced $25% more than DC bi-weekly offering, are selling pretty well even after their $5 initial offering. In-fact still outselling DC's bi-weekly books not named Batman, Detective, Flash, Superman or Justice League. The others? Like Action Comics, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Nightwing, etc ... all selling less to shops. How long before DC notices this and makes the change?

And of course keep in mind that Marvel has had a habit of shipping titles for free to the shops and skewing the totals, like assholes, but even taking that into consideration having a bunch of comics shipped to your shops for free can't be a bad thing, if you know how to use them. Shops around here are doing a "buy 'this' issue and get 'this issue' free or just pricing the free comics at $1 or so ... making sure they don't lose money at the end, of course.  :D

And I actually think DC is taking notice as they are starting to price books in the $5 range a lot more as well.

The revolt has to come from the readers!! Stop buying these books priced in this manner!!
 :)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on June 26, 2017, 07:43:36 AM
My family is temporarily living in an apartment and I had a discussion with my wife that could actually relate to this.  Our complex has free parking out in the open but for $50 a month extra you can park in the parking garage.  The garage is half empty.  My wife said "Why don't they drop the price so more people will park in there and they can make more money?"

I played devil's advocate and gave a hypothetical example:  If they have 20 spots and are selling only 10 of them for $50 then they are getting $500 a month (10 x $50).  If they drop the price to $30 and they get 5 more buyers; 15 spots; then they are now getting $450 per month (15 x $30).  They lowered the price, got more customers, and lost money.

Maybe that's what's happening with comics.  Maybe they can actually make more money now with less readers.   So if people stop buying, the prices will actually go up more?  :-\


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 26, 2017, 09:07:10 AM


Maybe that's what's happening with comics.  Maybe they can actually make more money now with less readers.   So if people stop buying, the prices will actually go up more?  :-\

Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 26, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Yep, absolutely. We need to stop people from supporting #4 comics.

Okay, man, I screwed this up from the jump.
Of course that was suppose to be $5 comics. Not hashtag 4 comics
 ;D

My family is temporarily living in an apartment and I had a discussion with my wife that could actually relate to this.

Yeah, that could be a portion of it, a good portion, but I honestly think, internet fandom aside, people are just leaving comics in droves because of the way they are sold. Diamond Comics and to a greater extent, Local Comic Shops, are just past their usefulness. Just like publishing companies and newspapers, the paper product is being over run by a digital age. An age where I don't have to worry about damage to the corners, my paper missing or getting wet. The problem with comics are they are trying to still hold onto that niche selling system instead of capitalizing on the true growth industry, the digital system. Sure, there will always be a demand for print, absolutely, but how many books stores not named Barnes & Noble or Amazon are there near you? And heck, Amazon isn't really a book "store".

You always hear that Digital sales only equate to around 8 to 11% of sales, but is that surprising when they are charging the same price as their paper counterparts? What would happen if all these comic publishers suddenly decided to limit the print run of books to only the collected versions (trades and HCs) to sell to the "book stores" ... not LCS, but BOOK STORES and turn the monthly sales solely on digital for $1.50 an issue each Wednesday? Well I think that the customer base would start to rise, the interest for the paper product would be much better and even push the digital side and sales would sky rocket again. But of course all of this would be the end of the LCS. Something, for some reason, no publisher wants.

Not that I want people to go out of business, but hey, look what happened to typewriter repair shops and encyclopedia salesmen ... sometimes your industry dies for the better. Getting comics to digital and cheaper to the public, would be the way to save comics. Stop trying to save the owners and save the industry.

But still a good analogy, Jeff  :)

Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.

But do you not see that DC will soon do the same? Again, it is crazy to pay that much, but people, the hard core "I gotta have it"s will buy the damn things.

And what do you mean Marvel priced you out?  ;) I know you buy $3.99 comics from DC, so why not Marvel?  :D (and that is not trying to stir you up, that was made in jest and I know that is hard to discern, yet I am also curious) What is your DC price limit?
 :)

Hopefully you will never have to find out (nor will I) and they will start that DC Unlimited and we can all stop buying from the big two and just use both of their Unlimited packages.

When I was younger I had an unlimited package. No longer  ;D Now, in-fact, it is a very limited package
:D :D :D


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on June 26, 2017, 02:39:03 PM
...look what happened to typewriter repair shops and encyclopedia salesmen ... sometimes your industry dies for the better.

Wow.  There is absolutely no way for you to know this but my Dad's entire career was typewriter repair and he owned his own business.  And it's "office machine dealer" not "typewriter repairman" as I was unceremoniously corrected by a mad father at my mistake.   ;D

I spent many a summer in high school typing rooms cleaning those things in the hot Texas weather with no air conditioning.

He always wanted me to take over the business but like you said, times change and the typewriter went away.  Which is why I'm in the computer security business.   ;)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 26, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
And it's "office machine dealer" not "typewriter repairman" as I was unceremoniously corrected by a mad father at my mistake.   ;D

Yes, you're right, I am sorry.  :D  :D

(That is funny but I hope he got out in time)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 26, 2017, 07:31:08 PM
Quite honestly, that's what I believe has been happening the last 6 years already. I say six years because anecdotally that's been how long it's been since I regularly bought Marvel Comics before switching to Unlimited. Marvel priced me out of buying regular monthly titles.

But do you not see that DC will soon do the same? Again, it is crazy to pay that much, but people, the hard core "I gotta have it"s will buy the damn things.


I'm actually damned paranoid about this happening. At least with Rebirth, they limited the number of titles in name produced, as well as keeping stuff at $2.99. So, I did try a bit more. But the price to enjoyment ratio is always weighing on my mind.

And what do you mean Marvel priced you out?  ;) I know you buy $3.99 comics from DC, so why not Marvel?  :D (and that is not trying to stir you up, that was made in jest and I know that is hard to discern, yet I am also curious) What is your DC price limit?
 :)

Oh, I dig the curiosity.

I may even be off on the number of years ago this happened. Go back to the days of Fraction Iron Man, Bru Captain America, Millar then Hickman FF, Pak Hulk, I was really enjoying what was going on in those titles. Now, the big crossovers kept happening, but whatever, I kept ignoring them.

Then, all those books kind of ended at the same time. I HATED Tony being adopted storyline, Romita on Cap was not enjoyable (but I came on afterwards), Hickman was eventually done with FF (but his Avengers were coming after that), and Hulk...might have meandered.

What began to shift was that more and more titles were easily $3.99 all the time. Things were happening in the books that I just didn't like. I mean, sure, I wanted to know right at the time what was happening with Superior Spider-man, but I didn't care about 2 Avengers books at any time from Bendis, and I did not care about 2 X-men books from Bendis either.

There was also just my distrust about what was going on...and my lack of interest at $3.99. It's never been a secret how sour I've been due Spider-man's deal with the devil. That did make me emotionally distrust Marvel-feel the jolted boyfriend, as has been commented before.

And, at the same time, DC always kept more books at $2.99, and then there was New52 for the last 4 years, so I was reading, I was curious, I wanted to keep up. Sure, things pissed me off, or left me disappointed, but there was stuff (that was non Superman) that I just wanted to read.

But when prices would go up, I switched to trades, and waited more for Instocktrades deals, or dropped stuff. That's why I stopped reading monthly Batman, Justice League, and Action (actually, I quit Action twice during New52).

After all, at the end of the day, I think I now only own 4-5 New52 runs. I've sold all the rest. So, DC hasn't escaped my wrath, but DC continues to do small things to keep me excited.

I feel that way about a good many small Marvel things, but the damned event every 8 months just interrupts too much, pretends to upset and make changes when all it does is upset prices and storylines for a while.

And more honestly, Marvel kept way more books at $3.99 than DC, did more event interruptions, and once I realized that I could read or toss away what I didn't like, only 6 months behind due to Unlimited, it was easy to put my fanboydom aside and then just become a general reader.

Oh, it's been hard to come forward at times and show my Marvel excitement. Remender's Cap really helped once Romita left, (actually, I generally enjoyed all Remender's writing-From Uncanny X-force to Uncanny Avengers to Captain America, I got it all traded). Jason Aaron has been consistently awesome the entire time with Thor-for all aspects!! They've got good little books that I really enjoy reading, but Spider-woman for $3.99? Listen, I really enjoy reading this title, but I do not rate the art as something I would pay for. It's interesting, but not captivating. Ant-man is a damn lot of fun, Spencer really did something cool, but again, $3.99 an issue? when I can wait to buy the trade for 40-50% off cover price?

If Marvel doesn't value art, well, then neither will I. That's another part where my interest suffers.

And oh, it's not like all DC art wins the day each time. At all. but I'm liking more of where their characters are than Marvel's, currently (for the most part...until I subjectively change my response later. ;)

So...that's longwinded, but does that make sense without seemingly being biased?

When I was younger I had an unlimited package. No longer  ;D Now, in-fact, it is a very limited package
:D :D :D

Self-burn!!  :D


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 27, 2017, 03:29:34 AM
So...that's longwinded,

Hey, thanks for going into so much detail with your feelings/thoughts.

but does that make sense without seemingly being biased?

Well you ARE biased, but that is okay, I am biased. We are all biased slightly at least. True there are those "Zombies" and whatever DC only fans are called  ;D, but I know the Realm peeps are more centered than that and can and do enjoy books from the other side. From every side. But we still have a bias, no matter how slight, to one or the other. And that is fine. I think it really depends on what heroes or universal feel you enjoy more, right? Especially in your youth. You grew up with more DC love, I grew up with more Marvel love. It doesn't mean we want either to fail, hell, I am sure we want both to do extremely well, and it damn sure doesn't mean we don't find heroes we enjoy from the other side (Batman is my favorite character, period) but liking one "side" slightly more is perfectly fine, buddy. You can sound bias and still get your point across. You're good at it.  8) Much better than I can. ;D

But with pricing (sorry, went of point there) ... with pricing I have my Marvel limit, for sure, but as I just borrow most of the comics I read or, thanks to a very cool owner, read a few issues at the LCS, I don't feel the effect like most Marvel readers do. So with you, being more a DC guy, I was just wondering ... I guess I was wondering how many titles you would stay on if DC pushed to all $4 comics or, the way it is going, a lot of $5 comics. Would those comics that are now $2.99, be dropped if they hit the $3.99 mark bl-weekly? Would you drop any $3.99 book if it went to that horrendous $5 mark?

It is easy for me to rant and rail against comic pricing, but I have a way around. My anger is not really centered or fair. I know how Jeff buys comics, for the most part, so I was trying to find your "point of 'no'" if you will
 ;D


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 27, 2017, 09:37:27 AM
To drop DC Comics? A price? Well easily enough it's when
It hits 399 an issue with that I have to take pause. I mean double shipping a flash comic threw me off in the title because I didn't think it was that good twice a month. Same with Titans. And yeah, when issues here 399 or higher I look at whether or not I'll pick any more up.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 27, 2017, 09:41:57 AM
I'm at work and the phone cuts out my longer posts. But yes, DC can just as easily price me out.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 27, 2017, 02:36:48 PM
I'm at work and the phone cuts out my longer posts.

It doesn't want you talking here!!!! Throw out that phone ;D

But yes, DC can just as easily price me out

Sure, sure. I got ya. $3.99 is your stopping point. But are you going to drop Deathstroke? Don't do that!! You have to have some leeway
 ;)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 27, 2017, 04:48:15 PM
Well, not all $3.99 is an auto drop point. It just makes me really considering keeping it.

Look at Super Sons. That's $3.99. I really, really have to keep enjoying it, and liking where it's going to keep it up.

The other thing is also this: if I'm getting so many 3.99 books...then I'll also find one to drop. I'll squeeze out books on my own.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on June 27, 2017, 04:55:51 PM
Also, growing up a DC guy? I read my mom's 40 or so leftover and battered World's Finest and Action and Superman comics from the 60's (with some LoSH in there too!).

But my first comic, and comics, were all Spider-man/Amazing Spider-man. That's all I collected: Amazing, Web of, Spectacular too for 3 years only.

I only bought Superman comics after 'Death of'

I bought into X-men with AoA-where I got all of them.

I got Hulk in the last 2 years of PAD's career.

I got into Batman during Knightfall.

I didn't touch GL until....the very last year of Kyle as primary. I came full on with Rebirth.

I didn't buy Flash until Geoff Johns was there a year.

Iron Man? Not until 2 years after Heroes Reborn. Same with Cap, and Avengers.

Hell, if not for Wizard magazine and the Realm, I wouldn't have bought anything but Spider-man, and X-men, with Superman there too.

I would have been labeled a Marvel guy way more heavily than a DC guy for most of me time growing up.

What influenced me to be more of a DC homer?

Joe Quesada.

I just read his comments, and he seemed such an ass. OH, he believed he was digging into the Distinguished Competition like Stan Lee did, but Stan was friends with them. I don't believe that of Joe Q at all. He mostly always came off as a prick to me, and well, that influenced me as well.

But that was just other stuff I felt like bringing up. I


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on June 27, 2017, 05:36:08 PM
 8)
More later. Gotta go.
 :)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 05, 2017, 05:27:13 PM
Just saw the creative team for the new Falcon comic coming from Marvel during their "Legacy" spiel and I think it is a perfect example of what I was complaining about earlier.

FALCON #1
Written by RODNEY BARNES Penciled by JOSHUA CASSARA

Written by who? (I know who he is, now, after looking up the name, but do most comic fans? Is he going to pull them in?)

and then ... Art by who?

Oh, and here I thought you may have learned a lesson  :D :D :D So yeah, Look for Falcon to last 8 issues.

Marvel, why even bother if you're not gonna try?
 ::)   


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on July 05, 2017, 07:27:59 PM
Oh, I did the perfect "Who???!" when I saw this.

Okay, prolific writer with lots of screen cred. Cool. Will that make this title last? Hmm...that's the big question mark.

And Cassara? Not a name I know, not art I know. Not saying he's bad, but...I know nothing of him, so that doesn't make me go 'yeah, bring it!!'

I only know things about them because I googled.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 06, 2017, 03:22:28 AM
And we both know having your readers do a little homework before they buy is how you get them on a book.  :D

How many people are going to jump on because it is -

- A Marvel #1
- A Falcon Book
- The writer
- The artist

Again, I know you have to put books out to give them a chance, I get that, but when you are pushing almost 100 books a month, I think you are doing plenty, (just because the Legacy list is "53"  ::) titles, they are still more comics not on that list that will be coming out) more than enough 'experimental pieces'
 >:(

Marvel should publish around 50 titles a month, maybe 60 something, at most, 40 something at best. I think I will come up with a list now. Ya know, why not.
 :D
Of course I will do that list but I am not about to start listing creators. Other than a couple names here and there, I have no idea who Marvel has on payroll now.
 :-\

EDIT - I just wrote down 44 titles right off the top of my head. I think it is a good list, but I think it does need a little more diversity (ugh, I hate that word now. Not the concept or idea, just the overused word). It also has pure wish titles that I know would never happen, so yes, I am cheating (Micronauts anyone?  ;D)
Time to take dog to the dog park, but I will return with my list.
 :)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 06, 2017, 06:20:31 AM
Okay, my (super)fast list of titles Marvel should publish and a couple I wish they could  :D

(HERO)
Avengers - Thor, Iron Man, Steve Cap, Vision, Wanda, Wasp, Hank
Defenders - current group of Luke, Danny, Jessica and Matt. The Netflix team (this was a good comic)
Thor - the actual one
Cap - Stave
Iron Man - Tony
Hulk - Banner
She-Hulk - Jenn
Black Panther
Moon Knight
Daredevil
Ant-Man

(SPIDER-MAN)
Amazing Spider-Man - Peter
Spectacular Spider-Man - Miles
Spider-Woman
Venom
and a series of mini's with rotating Spider related stuff (IE - issues 1-4 Black Cat story, issues 5-10 Peter story)

(X-MEN)
Uncanny X-Men - Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Beast, Kitty, Ice-Man, etc ...
X-Men - The young group
New X-Men - or some other title with more of the school as focus
Wolverine
Deadpool
and a series of mini's with rotating X related stuff (IE - issues 1-3 a Cable story, issues 4-9 Psylocke story ...)

(COSMIC)
Guardians of the Galaxy
Inhumans
Silver Surfer
Nova (and or Quasar)
and the god-damn FANTASTIC FOUR!!!

(DARK-SIDE)
Dr. Strange
Ghost Rider
Punisher
and a series of mini's with rotating dark/evil stuff (IE 1-6 Man-Thing story, issues 7-10 Son of Satan story)

(OTHER ... things that would fail pretty quick, but I love the idea of having)
Marvel Team-Up or Two-in-One ... which I am super excited for that title when it hits
Marvel Spotlight - another rotating mini series with D list characters. Like Black Knight for a couple issues
WWII title - I know it would fail, but damn it, I love me some WWII comics. Invaders or Sgt Fury type!!!)
Ka-Zar - bring back the jungle action!!!
Western title - another would fail in 2 issues, but yeah, Two-Gun Kid and Kid Colt were cool to me as a kid

(Super Cheap titles to get kids into the world of comics and/or Schoolastic reading)
Squirrel-Girl
Moon Girl and Devil Dinasaur
Spidey
Avengers
Gravity ... remember him?

Dreaming of if only they could bring back -
Alien Legion
Dreadstar
Micronauts
Rom

Man, I would go broke buying Marvel again ...   ;)
 :D

I know I am forgetting a few titles, but again, this was just off top of my head.
What would you add or change?
 :)


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on July 07, 2017, 07:13:19 AM
My thoughts on your list........

(HERO)
Avengers - Thor, Iron Man, Steve Cap, Vision, Wanda, Wasp, Hank --- Yes!
Defenders - current group of Luke, Danny, Jessica and Matt. The Netflix team (this was a good comic) --- Yes!
Thor - the actual one --- Yes!
Cap - Stave --- Yes! except I would have "Steve".  ;D
Iron Man - Tony --- Yes!
Hulk - Banner --- Yes!
She-Hulk - Jenn --- Yes!
Black Panther --- Yes!
Moon Knight --- Yes!
Daredevil --- Yes!
Ant-Man --- Yes!
I would probably add one or two female centered characters as well, like maybe Captain Marvel

(SPIDER-MAN)
Amazing Spider-Man - Peter --- Yes!
Spectacular Spider-Man - Miles --- Yes!
Spider-Woman --- Yes!
Venom why? This character is sooooo boring.  I'd say Carnage. That's a decent book.
and a series of mini's with rotating Spider related stuff (IE - issues 1-4 Black Cat story, issues 5-10 Peter story) Agreed
Also needs one more female lead book.  Maybe Spider Gwen?  I don't read that one so I don't know if it's any good or not.  Just a thought.

(X-MEN)
Uncanny X-Men - Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Beast, Kitty, Ice-Man, etc ... --- Yes!
X-Men - The young group I'd swap titles for this group of characters with New X-Men but I like.
New X-Men - or some other title with more of the school as focus with a different title but Yes!
Wolverine --- Yes!
Deadpool I don't read it but yes, you need this title.
and a series of mini's with rotating X related stuff (IE - issues 1-3 a Cable story, issues 4-9 Psylocke story ...) also agreee

(COSMIC)
Guardians of the Galaxy --- Yes! As long as someone better at cosmic stories is writing it.  Like Abnett/Lanning, Hickman, Starlin, or the person currently writing Ultimates.
Inhumans  --- Yes!
Silver Surfer haven't really ever read any good solo stories for this character so don't know about this one.  Maybe a team book with all the old heralds?
Nova (and or Quasar) only if it's Richard!
and the god-damn FANTASTIC FOUR!!! --- Yes!

(DARK-SIDE)
Dr. Strange --- Yes!
Ghost Rider the guy in the car or the original?
Punisher --- Yes!
and a series of mini's with rotating dark/evil stuff (IE 1-6 Man-Thing story, issues 7-10 Son of Satan story) --- Yes!
I'd move Moon Knight into this category.

(OTHER ... things that would fail pretty quick, but I love the idea of having)
Marvel Team-Up or Two-in-One ... which I am super excited for that title when it hits --- Yes!
Marvel Spotlight - another rotating mini series with D list characters. Like Black Knight for a couple issues --- Yes!
WWII title - I know it would fail, but damn it, I love me some WWII comics. Invaders or Sgt Fury type!!!) --- would you go for a modern version? An Invaders or Sgt Fury type fighting in the Middle East?
Ka-Zar - bring back the jungle action!!! --- Lol.  Ok, I'd support it for you.
Western title - another would fail in 2 issues, but yeah, Two-Gun Kid and Kid Colt were cool to me as a kid --- Yes, this would fail but could be fun. Lol

(Super Cheap titles to get kids into the world of comics and/or Schoolastic reading) --- Absolutely and your titles are fine with me.
Squirrel-Girl
Moon Girl and Devil Dinasaur
Spidey
Avengers
Gravity ... remember him?

Dreaming of if only they could bring back -
Alien Legion --- No opinion.
Dreadstar --- Yes!
Micronauts --- Yes! Only if it's the 70's version with Bug, Marrionette, and crew.
Rom --- Yes!

Of course we have Micronauts and Rom now under a different publisher.  Micronauts started out good and then tanked thanks to the crossover.  Haven't tried Rom yet but it's in my library.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on July 07, 2017, 07:22:52 AM
(X-MEN)
Uncanny X-Men - Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Beast, Kitty, Ice-Man, etc ... --- Yes!
X-Men - The young group I'd swap titles for this group of characters with New X-Men but I like.
New X-Men - or some other title with more of the school as focus with a different title but Yes!
Wolverine --- Yes!
Deadpool I don't read it but yes, you need this title.
and a series of mini's with rotating X related stuff (IE - issues 1-3 a Cable story, issues 4-9 Psylocke story ...) also agreee

I would also add an X-Force title with Cable as the leader.  Make it grittier the way Remender did back in the day.

I'd love to see this team:  Cable, Jaime Madrox, Layla Miller, Arch-Angel, Psylocke, Fantomex, and Monet.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 07, 2017, 08:44:26 AM
I would probably add one or two female centered characters as well, like maybe Captain Marvel

Great call. Forgot about her book (easy to do when the character has been slaughtered by a certain event)  >:(

(SPIDER-MAN)
Venom why? This character is sooooo boring.  I'd say Carnage. That's a decent book.

Why? Because he sells and people, not you or I  :D, seem to love this damn guy. I am not a fan, but as long as it sells more than the worst Marvel comic, it has to have a spot.
 :)

Ghost Rider the guy in the car or the original?

The car guy is not a Ghost Rider  ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D. No matter what they say  :D Bike all the way!!!  (except on the tv show where it worked better with the car)
The original guy on the horse called Ghost Rider is more Ghost Rider to me than that stupid ass car and helmet crap.
 ::)
(but in all fairness I love the look of that horse riding Ghost Rider sooooo much!!!

WWII title - I know it would fail, but damn it, I love me some WWII comics. Invaders or Sgt Fury type!!!) --- would you go for a modern version? An Invaders or Sgt Fury type fighting in the Middle East?

Not the same for me. WWII is the draw, again, for me. The greatest generation taking it to the most vile bad-guys in modern history. Middle East fighting gets too much into the religion or oil aspects too often.


Alien Legion --- No opinion.

Have you never read the old Marvel Epic Alien Legion titles? If not, search them out! Of course I have no idea if the hold up now or not  :D :D :D but man they were fun at the time.

Of course we have Micronauts and Rom now under a different publisher.  

Sadly in name only. Not the same. I tried both for a couple issues ... or at least one  ;) :D ... and was not "smitten" by either. But glad the Micronauts held you for a few.

I would also add an X-Force title with Cable as the leader.  Make it grittier the way Remender did back in the day.

I'd love to see this team:  Cable, Jaime Madrox, Layla Miller, Arch-Angel, Psylocke, Fantomex, and Monet.

I like the team, and I guess you would cut the "blue" X-Men group? I just say that as if you add that title, we are already back up to 7 darn X books and that was the problem back then for me. You couldn't swing a cat without hitting an X book back in the late 80's
 :D
 ;D ;D


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on July 12, 2017, 08:51:37 PM
Oh man, I'm nowhere near able to respond or add to this at all!!


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on July 14, 2017, 09:54:02 AM
I've been having a good laugh with bleeding cool and how they pick apart the  Legacy numbering Marvel is doing. What ridiculousness. I mean seriously, there isn't consistency across the board at all. But why? Set up The Legacy numbers near a milestone number to again boost a sales unit. Just stupid.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 14, 2017, 10:24:16 AM
Set up The Legacy numbers near a milestone number to again boost a sales unit. Just stupid.

Come on now, jimmy, you know it is anything but stupid.

Wrong? Sure. Manipulative? you bet, but having fans see that whole number ending in 50 or 00 is true sales gold. They are going to work it however they can.

Just wait until when the Avengers movie is ready to come out and they return everything back to new #1's again
 :D

and then of course, years down the road, when they need to again, back to the legacy numbers! And maybe they will add them all correctly this time?
 ::)

It's tiresome, but the way it is.

Hope all those stores that buy and buy and buy into this mess will find gainful employment elsewhere because they can't keep surviving falling into tricks like these and stay above water. They just can't. And Marvel, being such a HUGE proponent of the little comic shops, will continue to push this shit on them until the wise shop owners say "ENOUGH!"

But until then, until the dolts that are supporting what Marvel is doing stop supporting it ... well ... why would they change?
  >:( >:( >:(

Marvel has a lot of good stuff out right now, but it is washed away by the absolute horrible practices they continue to participate in actively.
 :-\


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on July 14, 2017, 12:26:05 PM
Oh., I'm so glad you're there as my editor and chief. :)

No, I do realize stupid was the wrong word. I would say " foolishly apparent" actually. It's simply a marketing move. I wouldn't say it's a bad idea I wouldn't say it's a good idea, but the execution of the idea apparently is going very poorly. It's cash grab, it's a sales Spike, its trying to get noticed. Because nothing else is really doing it for them.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on July 14, 2017, 02:24:44 PM
Because nothing else is really doing it for them.

Yep when all they have to do is just put out good comics. About 50 to 60 of them a month. With a price that stays below $4

Are those last two notions really that hard? You can't say you need your comics to be $5 an issue to help pay for all the good art talent you have as contract work, that is for sure.
 :D :D :D

Sadly when they see stuff like the sales charts Diamond just put out, it only makes their stance more stubborn. You can really only blame the people buying the stuff, really. It all boils down to them. It's simple, stop buying $5 books (regardless of the discount you get) and stop ordering ANY of those titles you know damn well are just going to go belly-up in 5 months.
 :-\

Remember how titles used to be heralded in? They would showcase a character inside another comic for a few months/years until the fervor was so high that he/she/they actually had fan attention and could support their own title. At least for a few years. Now, you just get whatever dumbass idea or character is just laying around pushed into a title.

This is not the heyday 70's when you could throw shit at a wall and see what people ate. Comics are not under 30 anymore

EDIT - Again, I like/enjoy/understand taking a chance on a couple titles a year, but when 50 to 70% of your output is titles that are not going anywhere but the cancellation column, SCALE THE FUCK BACK!!!!

DAMN IT!!!!
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on July 21, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
So reading some more from SDCC, it appears that over 30 artifacts and characters are coming back?

Hmm...what will make this Crisis occur? Since they had a chance with a soft reboot with Secret Wars, but didn't do that right, they are doing another 2 years later? Haven't they done nothing but harangue DC about their Crises and brag about how all of Marvel counts?

go ahead guys, just keep walking back all your bad stories. Maybe Captain Marvel won't be a villain, maybe Cap can be the mentor of your universe again, and maybe Cyclops can not be a martyr that you didn't want martyred.


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Perry on August 08, 2017, 08:00:38 AM
Well it appears my desire for the comic shops to start standing up to Marvel has finally started to happen. One shop around here is not ordering the new lanticular covers from Marvel and I have heard there are more.

And Brian Hibbs, one of the most famous Shop Owners (from San Fran) wrote a great write up recently (Found HERE (http://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-261-marvel-comics-and-the-deck-chairs-of-the-titanic/)) and BC has another shop owner talk about his ordeal with Marvel HERE (https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/07/comic-store-variant-october-2017/) (I haven't fully read that one as it is pretty long).

This is great news and I hope more and more shop owners stop allowing Marvel to end their store's limited lifespan early by trying to give them bullshit excuses from their ridiculous greedy practices and tell them to piss off and get back to the way it was.

No set goals to be able to buy shit. No hoops. No limitations. You want it, you order it, you get it, you sell it.

It
is
not
fucking
hard
Marvel
 >:( >:( >:( >:(

And $5.99 for Thor #700 when Thor is still not in the book? WTF? You start this entire Generations thing, and this Legacy talk, telling us ouor heroes are coming back, we get excited about Legacy whatever the dick it's called and then you bait and switch us?
Thor! Legacy!!
Buy Thor #700 for - the hunt for Thor? WTF
No, give us Thor in issue #700 you assess
 >:(
You already lied about the damn numbering anyway to fit your need, Thor #700 is not the number is should be, and now you will not give us Thor back until Thor issue #708 or some shit?

Oh ... excuse me, I forgot Marvel's way. You will not give us back Thor until you end this Legacy Thor title at issue #708, without Thor being in it, and then you will renumber the damn thing Thor #1 (volume 87) the return of Thor

Yeah!! Marvel Legacy!!!!
 >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jeff on August 08, 2017, 08:57:20 AM
OUCH!  That is one heck of an article.  It sounds like the comics industry is going to go the way of Blockbuster video!


Title: Re: Marvel Legacy
Post by: Jimmy T on August 11, 2017, 06:48:19 PM
Damn Perry...that was epic!!!

I got nothing to say but 'I agree.'

Simple as that.