HR Boards

As Waids current title All-New Avengers will soon be just Avengers, I decided to label this thread that, for ease of future discussions.
 ;)

Okay, it had to happen. After talking about how boring and un-Waid like the "All-New Avengers" title has turned out to be, I read issue #13 and my opinion changes just like that. Well, no, that is not right. The first 12 issues ... or first 10 actually as the Negative Zone story was decent ... as the first 10 issues were just a chore for me to get through, the 13th issue hits and all is now good in the world.

The amazing thing about this? This issue is kind of a tie-in with Civil War (okay, it's a stretch of a tie-in, but still  :D)

Also amazing? It seems I can no longer type "amazing" without trying to capitalize it into "Amazing". Damn Spider-Man!!!
 :D

Anywho, this book was a pretty good read, a take on the "If you could go back in time to when Hitler was a baby ..." idea, but this time using Kang. A character I have had problems with before but hopefully ...

Kang. Ugh. Just way too much time stuff ... I do need to go back and read Busiek's Avengers Forever, a now defunct book, to even get a grasp on Kang .. and that puppy isn't the easiest read. Hopefully this new Waid arc will make Kang a little easier for my head to grasp.
 :D

Hoping this All New Non-Boring Avengers continues ... at least for another 3 months when the team splits
 :)

7 outta 10 - Whispers that topple mountains

Marvel does love their whispers. One character just whispers and he can destroy ... well, mountain tops  ;D. Mary Jane whispers to Mephisto (had to get that damn thought back in my head >:(), Nick Fury to Thor (to make him "unworthy" ...  :D ...  :D :D ... :D :D :D :D  :D :D:D ...  :-\) and now we get a whisper hitting Visions ear about Kang?
Hmmmm I wonder what this one entails?
 :)

Please note when I post in this "Avengers" thread I will only be talking about the Main Avengers title or in this case, Waid's All-New, All blah, blah Avengers.
 ;)
Yes, you could argue that any of the other Avengers titles are the "Main" Avengers, especially the one with Captain America on it, but this one has a Cap too (although not THE Cap) and this book doesn't have Deadpool as a member. Deadpool, an Avenger? Not on my watch.
 :D
But anyway ...

Just like Justice League is failing DC as their premiere "flagship team book", so is this title failing for Marvel. There is just no passion here. I have hung on for months now and while it did get a little better during issues 11-12 or 13 or something like that (and there was an annual that was okay), with issue #14 we find ourselves ... no ... that's not fair ... I find myself right back where I was. Just not caring.

The good news for younger folks is this is a story about the new Wasp. A character hopefully some young kid will latch onto and make their favorite character. The bad news for us older fans is this is a story about the new Wasp. Another "new" character that only serves to make us older readers miss our older version of the character.

Again, I know full well what Marvel is doing this. They HAVE to try and get new readers. I get it. And I think they are doing a great job of trying to get a lot of the newer books aimed at those younger readers (Ms. Marvel, Patsy Walker, Squirrel Girl, Red Dinosaur and Moon Girl, Etc ...) into those "Schoolastic" type readers and/or order forms (remember those?  :)), but for us older readers ... eh.

Not that this title is going the younger way too much. No, that is what its offshoot "The Champions" will be (and yes, I will try it  ;D), but I think this title is suffering for some reason and maybe that is the reason. Maybe the set-up for the break-up and the reason the younger heroes leave the Avengers is what is bogging this series down now? I don't know. All I do know is I can't wait for this title to reset at that lovely #1 so we can try again.

Another half year or more of waiting on Unlimited for this title to do something good, and it still becomes lame or a waste in the end? Dammit, Waid@!!!

I'm telling ya, it does not get even close to good until around issue 10 or so  :-\ I keep saying it and saying it and ...
 ;D

Adjective-less Avengers Issue #1

(Slight spoilers ahead for MU readers, but nothing major)

Finally, we have an Avengers title again. Now before you get too happy, I only mean in name alone. It has been a long while since we have had an "Avengers" title. No All-New or anything unnecessary, just plain ole Avengers.

That said, finally, we have an Avengers title again. Yes this time I mean the story. This is Waid doing what Waid does best, mess with time. Haha, Waid does Kang like nobodies business and here we get the continuation of a Kang story that started back in Avengers #13 but is still basically just the start of this arc.

The only thing I think people will have issues with, probably, is the art. So much so that when I checked Marvel's own site to get reminded of said artists name, they only have the writer: Mark Waid and the "Cover Artist": Alex Ross listed. Is that a sign of being scared? Maybe. I would take it as a shot against me if I were the artist, but hey lets get to the meat of it.

When he was on WeirdWorld, Mike Del Mundo was the perfect artist. His style was literally the best look for that book. It was amazing. It added so much to the incredibly fun story. It was the perfect fit. But ... here, on Avengers, there are times when even I (a Mundo fan) struggled greatly with the art. It is really sad as I think, story wise, this was a great start for this title, but the art, this art, was so ... not good. It just really killed the momentum to this story. Again, I say that as a fan of Del Mundo's work. It is just not good for "Hero" work. Put him back on Weirdworld and I will be first in line to buy it, but not here. Just not on capes and spandex.

Still, for those that can get past it, I think the story (or beginning of the story that this is truly) is good. It's strong enough. If you can get past the art. And on some panels, you will just not be able to. I can promise you that.
 :-\

Due to that art factor ...

6 outta 10 screams of "I miss the days when the artist also did the interiors!!!!"
 :D
 

Avengers #1 and #2

While the story has gotten ... better ... I am not really enjoying this art. I liked the style and look when it was in Weirdworld, but here, with spandex and cape, not so much.

 :-\

Man, I don't know what to say other than an artist that I do enjoy, on most things, is just bringing this story down for me. It is just not clicking. This story is just so hard to read. While I can normally slide the art out of the way with books that the art is not the greatest ... at least for an issue or two ... here I can't ignore the art at all, it just overtakes the entirety of all the panels to the point the text balloons become part of the art and it is effecting my reading enjoyment

I am just gonna have to push this title away until we get an artistic change. I am hoping Del Mundo gets onto a title that I think better fits his overpowering style (like a space opera type with lots of aliens), but I am just not enjoying his "Caped" work.
 :-[

Avengers 1 - I feel the same way about the art as you do.  I also didn't like the dialogue or characterization. Just off for me.  I did like the plot and the idea of this story.  Was going to stick around to see how that plays out but if Perry, who liked all but the art, can't stick it out I may just go ahead and skip this.

I think I posted my thoughts in the Weekly Reader.

The art of Del Mundo on #1 made me immediately drop the idea of reading #2. I think there's some interesting stuff there (I love Kang/Immortus stuff!!!), but most of the team I didn't immediatley care for, I don't like Petey Stark here, and yeah, the art. No thanks.

Petey Stark is exactly what I was thinking about in regards to characterization.  Just bad.

And I can totally see and understand why. I need to go look at the editor of this title and find out who the hell thought that DelMundo was a fit for this book?

Again, and Jimmy may still feel the same and I get why, but again Del Mundo's work on Weirdworld, no capes or at least limited appearances, was fine. Not for everyone surely (for examples see - "Jimmy"  ;D), but there was a nice bit of storytelling there. In this title he just clouds all the characters into one big glob of color. No distinction. No true definition. Just a big ole' 'plop' of color.

It is sad too as this book has one of the finest Kang stories I have read and I hate Kang.
 :D

Hm, guess I should clarify.

Del Mundo's art on this Avengers title makes me say no way, jose. That, and Waid's presentation of some charcters, the presence of some characters all contribute to me saying 'I haven't read nor enjoyed a prime Avengers title since before Secret Wars.'

I could see Del Mundo doing some nice work elsewheres. No problem. Hell, even on a different Marvel title. I just don't think his look is a look for this team book though.

No need to clarify, I knew you were talking about the Avengers title art and nothing else.

I just thought I would throw the other stuff in. I wasn't saying nor thought that you hated the art as a presentation of itself, only on said title.
 :)

Yeah just call it me not understanding the content of the post, Perry. I wasn't sure if I said wrong or poorly or, quite honestly, just garbled. I was just confused.  ???

Sa'll good!!  ;D

Oh trust me, I know of what you speak. Oh, how I know!!!!  :D :D :D :D

Avengers #1

Rapid thought!!!

(No spoilery stuff)
 ;)

I enjoyed this, but man, I could have loved it. I am just not a huge fan of Mcguinness' art. Especially in this context where I wanted a little less "big guy" type. Plus here, his characters seem very flat faced. There was hardly any dimensions to the heroes faces. I am not saying it sucked, it just wasn't what I wanted.

I usually read this title, depending on the story arc. Age of Khonshu was decent, but Enter the Phoenix was horrible. Just binged and finished World War She-Hulk and really enjoyed it. Huge fan of Winter Guard and Gorilla-Man!

Oh how I loved Moon Knight kicking all kinds of Avenger booty  :D but man, Jason Aaron, who I really love as a writer, just left so much to be desired with his run here. For me anyway. But hey, lots of people do/did like it and certainly glad you are amongst them, but I do think the art was a huge factor in me not enjoying this title more.

I really think Aaron could have written everything the exact same way and with a different artist, I would have at least read more of it. Now  in all fairness, the colorist also didn't wow me honestly. Not that the job they did was poor, but I am not usually a fan of super bright comics in the first place, save for books like Cap or Superman or the like, and while I understand that Avengers, by and large, could or should be such a title, the stories themselves led more to a darker tone.

I mean, for some examples, you had a Celestial story, a vampire story, Ghost Rider stuff and of course the aforementioned Moon Knight storyline and to me they all lend to the darker tone of coloring. If I saw a vampire movie that was as brightly lit and colorful as Aarons Avengers story... well, you get it.

But it isn't all on the creative team, all are good at the craft, it was just a bad editorial move to put those pieces together on this particular title. At least to me
 :)

But this isn't just about Avengers, I was talking about how Batman is starting to piss me off as Gotham City currently is beginning to look as colorful as Metropolis and that is just crazy!!
 ;D

But just as the saying goes that the best whiskey is the one you like to drink, the same should be said about comics. The good comics are the ones that you got enjoyment from!!!
 :)

I understand what you're saying about coloring. The brightness/darkness definitely adds to the feel of the story. When it's available online, will you be reading Moon Knight? I picked up the first four issues and it's a decent read. I really don't know much about the character.

I will be.  His schizophrenia makes him a pretty interesting hero.

Oh yeah, one of my favorite characters (you should truly read the older stuff, or at least a recap of it so you don't have to deal with 80's writing  ;)).
I have read the first issue of the new series already, couldn't wait to try it, but I will be reading the rest as it hits MU, yeah buddy!!
 :)

Finally got around to reading issue #50/750 and WOW!!! There is alot to absorb and process. Great issue and moved quite a few plots along, but I don't care for the new roster and will not get the next issue/arc.