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MARVEL COMICS => MARVEL HEROES SOLO BOOKS => Topic started by: Jeff on March 03, 2014, 11:04:25 PM



Title: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on March 03, 2014, 11:04:25 PM
What do you think of Moon Knight's new costume?


(http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/124/597/original/Moon_Knight_1_Preview_1.jpg?1393873645)


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on March 05, 2014, 01:18:03 PM
Yeah, saw that in the previews before I ordered and thought it may be just a one off. But with Ellis, who knows, may very well be the "costume".
 ;D


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on March 06, 2014, 06:45:45 AM
OHmahgawD what a great first issue! w000oooo000OOO!!!


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on March 06, 2014, 05:50:45 PM
OHmahgawD what a great first issue! w000oooo000OOO!!!

Arrrgh!  I have to wait until the end of the month to get it!!


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Wringer on March 07, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
OHmahgawD what a great first issue! w000oooo000OOO!!!

Arrrgh!  I have to wait until the end of the month to get it!!

i cut back to twice a month and i am dying to pick this up as i am a huge MK fan.  i really like the Moon Suite and car thou i hope Frenchie shows up somewherer.  also hoping we will see the more traditional costum at some point too.  very much looking forward to this and to see what Warren has in store for us


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on March 08, 2014, 02:17:33 PM
No Spoilers -
This issue did not hit the same for me as it did for others. While I thought it did a good job ... hell, a great job of bringing us up to speed about who MK was/is, the story in this issue didn't "feel" like a Moon Knight comic, even though it should have because it had the proper tone, plot and atmosphere.

To me, this came across more as FELL issue #10. Moon Knight spoke like Richard Fell and the writing in general felt like a Fell comic much more than a Moon Knight comic. Obviously the art style, while very good, didn't help me on differentiating between the two as both styles have that nice "sketch" tone to them, but yeah, More FELL than MK here for me.

That is not to say there are not some good things in this book. There are. I enjoyed the art greatly and I thought the use of the colors were perfection. I liked the way the cops handle the events of recent past allowing them to even talk to MK. I also did enjoy the various ways MK used his crescent darts  ;D. Hell, I even loved the way it ended, as calm and non-dramatic as that was. But still, I just can't get away from the fact that the first half of this book didn't hit me as Moon Knight, but as another Warren Ellis character.

I love Warren Ellis, one of the best, and while I would be the first in line to buy FELL issue #10 ... if Artist Ben Templsmith ever decided to actually start drawing the script that Warren Ellis sent him about two years ago  >:( ... I want more Moon Knight in my Moon Knight comic. Can't explain it, but that's how I felt after I put this book down.

Still way on board for this title and I am sure that MK will be more prevalent soon, I just remember spending a few moments looking at this cover before opening the it, wondering if this book was going to pull a perfect 10 or would I end up throwing a 9 its way. Still shocked that the answer is neither.

7 outta 10 - Expectations, that were set way too high.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 08, 2014, 01:54:52 PM
Issue #2

Artistically, comics can't get much better than this. The look alone really fits the tone of this book. It's not overly clear and kinda murky ... everything Moon Knight should be. Hell, remember those great Sienkiewicz issues. That look was great and so is this. It is also a treat to see the way colors are used here. They really set this book atop others visually.

Yes, I did have issues with the glider being a little too large. Okay, waaay too damn large, but still, even with that, this book is a joy to look at.

And then ... then there is the writing. Look, I am not saying it's bad writing, I enjoy it, but is this really Moon Knight writing? I know I was in the minority last month when I said issue #1 didn't feel like a Moon Knight comic, but damn it, I am saying the same thing again this month. This is just not a Moon Knight comic. Well, visually it is. I stated that, but plot wise and story? No, not much at all. And I say that as a huge Ellis fan.

Last month we had a Warren Ellis' FELL issue wrapped in the guise of a MOON KNIGHT issue and this month we are given a Warren Ellis' RED issue wrapped in similar cover dressing. Other than a white costume with a white cowl and a white cape, something we didn't even get in issue one, what makes this a Moon Knight issue? Nothing. You could have inserted any marvel character in this story and had the exact same results. Is this just Ellis emptying his drawer of one-shot stories? Was this an old Punisher story he had? Or an old Daredevil script?

Again, I am not NOT enjoying what I am reading, but I want a Moon Knight comic and so far, two issues in, I haven't read even one.

Even with that great art, this is just an average comic -
5 outta 10 men behind the mask


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on April 10, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
I dunno what to say to you Perry. I like it. For me, it does "fit" the image I have of MK.

My reading is this:

Essential Moon Knight
Moon Knight 1-30 (volume...3? Charlie Huston run)
Odds & ends of MK appearances throughout Marvel appearances

To me, (before reading Essential), MK was a bit of a joke. An amalgam of Batman, DD, and hell, Tony Stark. What I gleaned from all these appearances?

He's crazy.
He is violent. Crazy violent to those that deserve it.
He's odd in his doings, and always leaves you wondering if that when he looks at you, you wonder what he is actually seeing.

The second issue, yes, could have been any hero, I guess. Too true. The first issue? I thought that was exactly in the vein of how I've been "led" to believe who/what MK is.

Too often, however, I've been on the other side of the argument for Spidey/Hulk/Superman and been told by less...read? experienced? involved? empassioned? fans that I just needed to chill.

Now, I'm NOT telling you to chill. Not at all!

But I have no problem with this. I hope the whole tapestry of what they are starting here does develop into the Moonie you do remember and love.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 10, 2014, 07:57:23 PM
To me, (before reading Essential), MK was a bit of a joke.

I can see that. But there is nothing in these past two issues remotely similar to the Moon Knight found in that essential Moon Knight, especially the vol one part of the series.

I don't expect a character to "remain the same", but I do expect (want/demand) a portrayal of what a character is or what he represents. Both of these "Moon Knight" issues could easily be another character's story and that is not what I want from my Marvel Batman rip-off.  :) I want stories that highlight him, not vague stories that you only know Moon Knight is in them because of the title and the costume.

What made issue one a MK comic? Nothing, other than the costume and someone saying it was him. And the same can be said, even more sternly, for issue 2. These read, to me, exactly like Ellis getting rid of some generic story ideas he had. Could issue one been a Nightwing comic? You bet it could. Issue 2 a Punisher comic? Oh yeah. There is no Moon Knight image to have here in thses issues because ANYONE could fit those roles.

In fact, I will bet you that issue #3 is also a one-shot issue that could be filled with a vast amount of any other DC/Marvel/ Ellis owned character. I am thinking it will turn out to be a Planetary type issue that Ellis just could never fit into his Planetary run and so he spins it into a MK tale.
 ;D
Okay, I have no idea what it will be about, but if it is just another story that could easly fit under the non-specific, generic umbrella I wouldn't be surprised. I think Ellis is here for 12 issues or so because he has 12 issues or so of solo character stories he has to tell. But I could be wrong. I hope I am, truthfully, and I am very glad it is hitting for you, but nothing I've seen here hits "Moon Knight" for me ... at all.
 :-\

I'm just finding myself lamenting the decision to get this and NOT the Iron Fist series that just started. I read that and, say what you will, THAT was an Iron Fist comic that starred Iron Fist. Not like this Moon Knight comic that doesn't star anyone ... or could star most everyone.
 :-\


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on April 11, 2014, 12:36:19 AM
Dang. All that stuff you just described sounds like an awesome read!   ;D

I know what your saying but that would be cool to read Ellis' one offs using Moon Knight.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 11, 2014, 12:50:59 AM
I know what your saying but that would be cool to read Ellis' one offs using Moon Knight.

Absolutely, unless you want to read Moon Knight.  ;D

Have you not read issue 1 yet?


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 12, 2014, 04:17:07 PM
I personally know how easy it is to miss a post (ask Jedicow), so ...

Have you not read issue 1 yet?

 :)


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on April 12, 2014, 06:32:27 PM
Lol.

Yes I have - sorry - been swamped at work.  I'm having to manage two teams since one of the other managers is out on military leave for 6 weeks.  And this week we've been dealing with the "Heartbleed" vulnerability.   ;D

I liked the first issue.  Nothing super memorable but I liked him in the suit.  I also liked the explanation for Bendis' weird run.

Definately enough to keep me coming back.  I haven't got issue 2 in the mail yet - end of month - but so far I'm enjoying it.  Granted, we're only one issue in.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on April 12, 2014, 11:56:58 PM
I gotta ask you guys this then as well;

did you like Bendis run?

I did not, and will not, read it.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 13, 2014, 12:06:30 AM
I gotta ask you guys this then as well;

did you like Bendis run?

I did not, and will not, read it.

Well what we say really doesn't matter than ;D

I enjoyed it a lot. I liked the "crazy" that Bendis put into MK's head. How he worked the voices was really cool and the story was engaging. It would have been better if it wasn't a precursor to the delayed Utron event, but it had a good story regardless of that.

To me, it was right in Bendis' wheel house ... where he is at his best. Just one main character to focus on. His Avengers and X-men, what I tried to read, always seem to suffer from everyone either being totally batshit out of character or everyone having the same exact voice ... Wolverine or Spider-Man, but when he is on a title with only one or two main stars (Ultimate Spidey, Powers, Alais and Moon Knight for examples) he is a very competent writer that tells very good stories and a writer I thoroughly enjoy. When he gets too much going on character wise, he just looses it. Just not very good. For me.

Plus I like Maleev's art. And his style certainly fit this.

But again, as you won't read it ...
 :D


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on April 13, 2014, 02:15:43 AM
I'm on the other side of the fence.  I did not like the Bendis run.  Making him think he was spider man or wolverine or captain America didn't work for me.  I thought the premis was dumb.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on April 13, 2014, 03:41:44 AM
Well, just because I won't read it..well,...okay can't go anywhere because I always end up hating Bendis work. Just curious how fans of MK thought of the book. Interesting reactions both!  ;D


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 13, 2014, 11:25:14 AM
I'm on the other side of the fence.  I did not like the Bendis run.  Making him think he was spider man or wolverine or captain America didn't work for me.  I thought the premis was dumb.

I think you missed a lot towards the end ... maybe ... which will certainly NOT help your enjoyment of it.  :D

At first, I also was wondering if he was thinking he was these characters, and I really didn't care for the book, but it was made clear later that he was just thinking they were there and the book did get better. MK was visualizing them together and thinking he was part of a team. His dissociation crap created them as separate entities and then he acted them out as such.

Plus
with Echo being more fleshed out in the series, the relationship they had, followed by her eventual death, it really made the book a fun read for me. But then again, unlike the current Ellis run, THIS run at least had a Moon Knight in it, even if you didn't like the Moon Knight that was there.
 :P

But you like the "team writer" Bendis, Jeff and I am tellin' ya, it is just a different writer. Makes sense you like the one and not the other ... I sure as hell do. We're just flipped on the one we like I guess.
 :)


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on April 13, 2014, 03:27:08 PM
Not completely flipped as I LOVED his ultimate spiderman.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on April 13, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
Well okay, not completely.  ;) But you sure enjoy his team stuff more than I do.  :)


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on April 13, 2014, 08:17:59 PM
That IS true!


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on May 07, 2014, 03:15:28 AM
Just finished issue 2 - Loved it.

Yeah the glider's too big but who cares?  It's a fun book.

I'm starting to think Perry is inventing reasons to not pick up comics so he can keep his pull list low.   ;D



Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on May 07, 2014, 12:06:52 PM
Just finished issue 2 - Loved it.

Yeah the glider's too big but who cares?  It's a fun book.

I'm starting to think Perry is inventing reasons to not pick up comics so he can keep his pull list low.   ;D



 ;D

No, no. Come on, you make it sound like I didn't enjoy the book.  ;D

As I said, it is really well done book. And I also said that even with the glider being too big, this book is a joy to look at. Also said artistically, it fits Moon Knight perfectly. The art is not, in any way, the problem here.

And to be honest, I also said I liked the writing.

However, this is still not a Moon Knight book. To me.  :)  I said I think Nightwing (as he is currently the talk of the comic word) could easily have been transposed in issue 2, and that is 100% true ... isn't it? Or I'm I honestly missing something? Is there ANYTHING in issue #2 that makes this a Moon Knight comic, other than him being in a white costume and throwing crescent darts?
 ;D

In fact, hell, issue #2 could have easily been a RED comic (if anyone here has read that mini by Ellis ... and not the damn movie that was totally different  >:()

anyway ...

Combine that with the lack of Moony in issue #1 (and I am betting the lack of Moony in issue #3 ... though I am hoping I am wrong ... if I am I will be more than happy to jump back in) and yeah, I had no troubles dropping a Moon Knight comic that didn't have Moon Knight in it.
 ;)

That still doesn't mean it's a bad comic. It certainly doesn't mean it isn't a "fun book", it is. Just not a comic I wanted, and yes ... that made it easier to drop.
 ;D

Just like how GREEN ARROW is a good comic ... no, a very good comic, yet not a comic I wanted because it ties into the show I don't enjoy. But I still stated how everyone should indeed pick up the GA book as it is that good, it is still a good book and well worth the money, it's just one I don't want to read.

Same thing here. Much like how GA ties into a show I don't like, and that doesn't make the GA comic a bad book, me expressing how I feel that this Moon Knight comic doesn't have Moon Knight in it, doesn't make the Moon Knight comic a bad book. It just makes it one I don't want to read.

 ;)

I love Warren Ellis, but I went in thinking I was getting a Moon Knight book. I should have just been happy about getting a Warren Ellis book.
 :-\

And yes, I am aware that I am "protesting too much"
 :D :D
 


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on May 08, 2014, 03:26:37 PM
ISSUE #3

A much better "MK" comic. This one actually made me feel like I was reading a comic that was suppose to star Moon Knight and not just any generic character thrown in around a story.

Art was, once again ... as every issue has been ... Just freakin incredible. One of those styles that look even better cecause of what the subject is. Know what I mean? Just amazing. And the glider is a little smaller now  ;D

My only complaint this time (at least it is not that MK is not in here) is the story needed another page to end this story correctly. The last page was very, very rushed. This harkens back to Ellis' style on Planetary. He gets real deep in a plot-line, builds the tension like a temple, and then BAM, it ends with little fan fare or true closure. Kinda sucks.

Still a much better MK issue (yes, I know I keep going back to that, but THAT is what really bugged me before.)

8 out of 10 punk ghosts. (could have easily been a 9 if it had another page)
 :-\


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on May 29, 2014, 03:27:50 AM
Well, I guess you can just eagerly await the next writer since Ellis is done with the title at #6. What crap.  >:(


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on May 29, 2014, 11:06:20 AM
Well, I guess you can just eagerly await the next writer since Ellis is done with the title at #6. What crap.  >:(

Yep, another thing that bugs me about Ellis. I was expecting no more than 12, the norm, but 6 is no shock. Just really suspect he had 6 "non-specific hero" stories lying in a drawer somewhere and figured he needed to get rid of them anyway, so why not Moon Knight?

I know you guys like what was on the page, and so do I, but I will still go to my grave knowing ... thinking ... that his MK was just that ... drawer material he had that he tweaked around MK.
 ;)


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on May 29, 2014, 05:38:04 PM
Yep, another thing that bugs me about Ellis. I was expecting no more than 12, the norm, but 6 is no shock. Just really suspect he had 6 "non-specific hero" stories lying in a drawer somewhere and figured he needed to get rid of them anyway, so why not Moon Knight?

 ... drawer material he had that he tweaked around MK.
 ;)

I'm not even sure I would throw this at Ellis' feet. I'd almost say it was a Marvel editorial thing. And rightly so; want to restart a Nova ongoing? Get Loeb and Mcguinness to jumpstart that title due to their following, and they leave within 6 issues. Nova, Moon Knight, Secret Avengers, Hulk; it just seems their norm.

But yeah, I was hoping it could be strung out for a year at least.

Oh well, another 6 issues to sell in 3-5 months....Along with Waid's brief Hulk run....


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on May 29, 2014, 06:30:37 PM
I'm enjoying it but I agree its not a keeper at this point.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on May 30, 2014, 12:42:10 AM
I'm not even sure I would throw this at Ellis' feet. I'd almost say it was a Marvel editorial thing.

Absolutely. I agree and that is why I think this title was not Moon Knight. Marvel called and said something along the lines of "Hey, we are thinking about re-starting Moon Knight and you sure make a killing when you write. Got any ideas?"
"Sure, I have some stories laying around I can modify slightly by putting the character in a white cowl. About six anyway."
"Great, just what we were looking for. A popular writer to come in and get the sales started for a couple months until we find a more semi-permanent team. Thanks Warren."
"You bet, mate"

I'm telling ya, I said it since the first issue ... these were not MK stories.    :P

   ;D


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on June 14, 2014, 01:43:11 AM
ISSUE #4

Okay, yes, we get a little bit of Moon Knight connection here making this more of a Moon Knight issue than prior issues for me, but that ending? Man, I though last months issue was rushed. Compared to this, that issue was 40 plus pages. I mean could this ending have been more cut off? build up, build up, action, summation, execution and BAM, close book. No closure what-so-ever.

Warren, my man, you are one of my top 3 writers but this shit is just ridiculous. Each of the last two issues has had no closure to them at all. I mean sure, the case is "solved", but there is literally nothing after that. No "what happens next", no story about how it happened or why. No true ending.

We gat to the last page and Moon Knight gives his speech about the guy burying a guy in the floor boards and then ... nothing? At all? Bah. What a complete rip. I don't need to have the ending spelled out for me, and I like stories that lend to your own exposition, but that is not what is going on here. This is like Ellis is thinking he has 23 pages to tell his story and then at page 21 you











Yeah, just like that.
 >:(


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on June 14, 2014, 03:45:20 AM
All right you've convinced me.  Despite my enjoyment I'm gonna drop this.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on June 14, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
All right you've convinced me.  Despite my enjoyment I'm gonna drop this.

 :D

That is pretty funny, buddy. Sadly, I just don't know if you're being facetious or not  ;D

But just in case ...  I'm not suggesting anyone drop this title, I am just venting my frustrations at the way one of my favorite writers is writing this title ... a title featuring a character I really want to read about. Hell, I am thinking about jumping back on after Ellis leaves, in two more issues, because I think the new writer will come in and write a better "Moon Knight" comic than the one Ellis has been passing off.

Now again, that doesn't count last issue, which was more MK centered than any of Ellis' past issues, and maybe 5 and 6 will be even more so, but that last issue and the issue prior were just horrible at leaving me satisfied with their ending.

Were you happy about the way the last issue ended? I mean, did you not get bothered by the complete and sudden stop to the story? Notice how I didn't say the "ending", because issue #4 had no ending at all. Yes, it ended, but that was no ending.

Has no other Moon Knight fan been unhappy with this title?

However, if you are enjoying this title, you should NOT drop it. Don't drop a book you enjoy.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jeff on June 14, 2014, 01:53:06 PM
 ;D

I'm just picking on you.  But I do agree with you that as great as that issue was it just stopped all of a sudden.  It needed about four more pages I think.

Even though I enjoy the stories, it's not a series I can live without and don't think I'd miss it if I did drop up.  I'm sticking around to see what the new writer does though because I do like Moon Knight.


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on June 15, 2014, 01:15:55 PM
;D

I'm just picking on you. 

 ;D
Oh, I figured  :P

 ;D

I am gonna miss that art when Declan Shalvey leaves with Ellis though. That is gonna be a huge hit. Luckily I think the colorist Jordie Bellaire is staying.

Funny how colorists never get any damn props from us fans and they truly do make the book have an important feel and tone. The first four issues of this Moon Knight do nothing but substantiate that 100%. This book just had the perfect fit of artist and colorist.

(And see, even there I separated the colorist from the "artist". Shame on me. Are the colorists not just as much an artist? Yes. Yes, they are. Bad Perry. Gonna try and make a concerted effort to start recognizing them more. I hope)
 >:(


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on June 17, 2014, 06:07:20 PM
I've "liked" Moon Knight here and there. But mostly, I follow him due to his creative line-up.

Charlie Huston with Finch when Finch was TRULY great? Hells yeah I'm there.

Bendis on MK? Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Ellis on MK? YE-ah, I don't even get to finish the 'yes' he's gone that fast. Now, Brian Wood is just fine, very good.

But that doesn't sell MK for me. I'll just read it in 6 months on Unlimited.  ;D


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Jimmy T on June 30, 2014, 01:46:23 AM
Yeah, an over used time machine trip would have me going back 4 months and saying "Skip Ellis Moon Knight. It's okay; you'll be fine if you pass it over."


Title: Re: Moon Knight
Post by: Perry on June 30, 2014, 12:18:52 PM
I concur.

Good single issue stories, but don't any "needed" advancement of MK.

Hoping the new creative team knocks it out of the park, but sadly, MK hasn't sold well for decades due to the older generation knowing MK's rouges are shite and the younger generation concentrating on him being a Batman rip-off and by doing so totally misunderstand the nuances of that making MK an interesting study.

Black costume / white costume
Superman / Khonshu
True persona(?) / Fake identity(?)
Alfred being like a father / Frenchie being like a brother
Batarang / Cresent dart ... hahaha ... Okay, just threw that in for giggles.