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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 1491 times)
Jimmy T
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2017, 07:53:39 AM »

Perry...that moment...I actually loved. Grin

Full blown review much later than opening weekend is what I'm doing.
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Perry
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2017, 05:36:33 PM »

Perry...that moment...I actually loved. Grin

Well of course you did
 Cheesy Cheesy
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Mitch
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 11:03:25 AM »

Saw it this past weekend and greatly enjoyed it.  I'm with Perry - easily ranks with the original trilogy.  Other than some of the humor feeling a bit forced in places and the usual little things that just come with the Star Wars territory (e.g. stormtroopers that can't aim and the obligatory cute Happy Meal characters), I can't think of much I didn't like at the moment.

One aspect of the movie that I found interesting and refreshing was the way they subverted an extremely common trope in movies...
In almost all movies, the standard mission scenario is for the courageous hero to take a chance and go against an ignorant and/or play-it-safe authority and save the day.  In several places throughout the story, Poe repeatedly disobeys his superiors (first Leah, then Holdo) but instead of saving the Rebellion, he just keeps screwing things up even worse.  I found it pretty brave for the writers to use fan-favorite Poe to illustrate this, but had he followed orders, there would have been a lot more people and ships on his side at the end of the movie.  

Some fans have griped that Holdo should have let Poe in on her plan. Why?  Because he's a handsome, funny rogue who flies well?  No, she doesn't have to tell him anything because she is in command.  Heck, what little he did find out got leaked with catastrophic results.

And I really like Laura Dern with her purple hair.  Cheesy

Also, I'm really enjoying Kylo Ren's character.  He's probably my favorite Star Wars character of all which is saying something as a fan who grew up on Star Wars from age 5.

.....well, maybe a close second or tie for first place.  Forgot about R2 for a minute there.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 11:06:17 AM by Mitch » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 12:45:52 PM »

So I snuck out of work a little early for lunch and went to see this.  Really wanted to see it before reading any spoilers.

I liked it.  It wasn't without it's problems and I wanted more from a certain character - or at least a setup for more in the next one.  But that aside I think the good outweighed the bad.

And wow.  It made me like Kylo Ren.  I didn't think that would be possible but I'm so glad they developed him more.  I like his character a lot now.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Jimmy T
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« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 05:19:31 PM »

My very, very, very long thoughts:

I have mostly been avoiding reading any reviews of The Last Jedi-from before, and after having watched it- simply to the point that a) most of it is annoying fan-based click bait sites (which, yeah, I read a lot of at times) and b) they have ranged in analyses of Ďitís brilliant; youíre a whiny fanboy and donít get it!í or Ďwhat junk! Wrecks all things Star Wars!í to Ďawesome! A great movie!í

Well, hereís my thoughts.Skip reading this at any time.

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Itís a decent movie. Itís pretty good. I enjoyed it...mostly...ish..

I do come out of it with feelings of dissatisfaction. Perhaps not dissatisfaction, but disconnected. I donít have any comments like ĎItís not MY Star Warsí or Ďitís not made for me.í Nothing of the sort. Iím not all fanboy raging either with any statements of Ďthis character would never do that!í or Ďhow could they do this?!Ē

I actually quite liked <most> of the character arcs and moving pieces for those characters. Notice I said Ďmost.í What I did not care for was the pacing or sequence of driving action to move the plot.

For starters, in the movieís opening crawl, I was immediately confused. The last movie had JUST ENDED with the Empireís Starkiller base being destroyed, and a great victory for the Rebellion. Now, mind you, the Republic planet, the seat of their power, was destroyed. However, with the Republic being comprised of hundreds or thousands of planets, I doubt killed individuals would wreck their home planetsí entire global system. Everything would be in an uproar, but this movie suggests something else. Also, apparently, the Rebellion is in tattersÖ.what? Again, the Starkiller base, a MOON was just destroyed, and the Rebellion is down to a few ships on the run. Now, I totally get that SW plays with time. There was definitely time to have passed based between the celebration after the base was destroyed and from when Rey finally met Luke.

This Rebellion in tatters leads to the great movie Macguffin of the Last Jedi. The Rebels canít hyperspace jump away, but they can slowly outrun the Empire with sublight engine speed (re: cruise control in space). So, itís a straight line, slow, space chase until the Rebels run out of gas.

THIS was done to set up what 2 of the titular characters would do with their story arcs. This is boring as shit. You may be able to come back at me to say this is how Poe grows from an impulsive, singular flyboy to a leader, and to allow Finn time to grow and see that there is something worth fighting for. Iím all for that. Find a better vehicle to extend time in a film. This is boring watching ships fly slowly-but even with that excuse, the Rebels never slowly pull away due to being Ďlighter and faster.í

Itís an uneven and ponderous story bridge from the beginning of the film to the climax.

Now, SW has played with not caring about actual time progression-because while being sci fi, itís also a fantasy film. The young hero travels with the mentor on a quest to learn and grow. To be fair, Luke only trained with Ben for about a few hours. He was with Yoda for, what, a week? We accepted his hero journey, even though it was juxtaposed with the constant harried search of the Falcon in the asteroid field to Bespin by the Empire because it just seemed to work.

It didnít for me here. It was boring. This time dilation led to Finnís growth story arc with the new character Rose. I donít feel Rose added anything to the saga of this movie. I didnít care about her. I didnít. This substory with her and Finn to the gambling planet only lengthened an already long film. The moment of these 2 characters discovering through narration through the most improbable deductive reasoning how to stop the other film Macguffin was laughable at best.

What I wanted was Rey and Luke. And this I loved and was fine with. Took their time here, and made it something I wanted to see. Luke, Rey, Kylo; all great set pieces with their movements through the film. Just fantastic.Reyís history and parentage was PERFECT. Anything else would have been just too highly of a coincidence, or over explained.

However, with Snoke, I come to believe that Rian Johnson, writer and director, just simply didnít care where stuff started with the first film. The use of Snoke in these movies makes Darth Maul look like Macbeth himself. A waste of space and interest in a character. No, I donít want every detail written out about all characters, but to have him made prominent in 2 films, then to end that story part as they did reduced his appearances to set dressing.

I feel Iíve already gone off topic from what I wanted to say or pass on. Iíve been non-spoilery on specifics of the film, and wish to keep it that way. What occurred for this fan and movie goer during the Last Jedi was that I went from excited and highly engaged to disaffected and bored through most of the viewing. Iíve said, and Iíll see how I feel stating it again, but I believe that I ďreally donít need to see a third one of these (movies)Ē As an enterprise of a movie, there was a lot of great work put into it. But itís nothing that drew me in personally. No part of me said, when walking out, that I canít wait to see this again. Nope, I saw it once, thanks, Iím good.

If anything, that just makes me sad. If I could edit the movie on my own at home, Iíd watch Luke and Rey and Kylo only, with some definitely awesome Leia moments in there, and call it a day.
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Jimmy T since 2001
jedicow
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 08:48:50 AM »

my brothers and parents are coming down here for Christmas on Sunday and we are all going to go see it together just like the OT.  I will post my thought after seeing it for the second time.  I was going to post about it but work started hopping and i was working late and just didn't get around to it. 





Actually, i still can't comprehend that Perry saw the movie before I did. Grin
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Perry
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 04:47:14 PM »


Actually, i still can't comprehend that Perry saw the movie before I did. Grin

I did it very similar to the way Luke did at the end  Cheesy  Smiley Cheesy
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jedicow
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2017, 09:35:02 PM »

Ok, we went and saw it again today.  I still stand by my comment of it being my 2nd favorite of the saga.  

I'm going to take this one by one, with spoilers, natch.

character by character:
Rey- I liked her overall arc in this film.  She didn't back down from Luke and stood her ground and reasons for being there.
  I liked that she was conflicted and had a weakness towards the dark side just like another Jedi that I will get to in a few.
  Oh what the hell.  She's just like Luke.  She is very emotional in what she believes in and as we all know, being overly emotional can lead to the dark side.  I'm not sure that I buy her lineage though.  Not yet.  It may turn out to be true,
 but it could also be a giant swerve by Kylo.  I still wouldn't be surprised to find out she is Ben's sister.  I also wonder if maybe she is like Anakin and a creation of Midichlorians.  Debate at length, if you want.

Finn-  He grew on me a bit more in this movie, but I found the plot of the casino to be one of the weaker points of the film.  He progressed as a character and I think he will be one of the leaders in the Alliance by the time the next folm rolls around.

Poe- My favorite new character.  I loved his opening sequence and the dogfight except for the minor gripe of how a lack of gravity in space would prevent the supposed G forces he was portraying when BB8 punched the X-wing.  I feel like he is the "Han" of the new group and much how Han was my favorite growing up, so to is Poe.  I loved how he scratched BB8's belly like a dog when they were reunited.  I predict he will be THE leader of the Alliance in the next film.

Leia- Mary Poppins space flying aside, I was pleased at how she was handled in this one.  I expected her to die about 4 times in the movie.  I thought the Dreadnought was going to take her out, then I thought Kylo was going to take her out,
 then I thought she was toast along with Ackbar, and then I thought she was going to stay behind on Crait and face Kylo and he would kill her much like he did his father.  I am curious to see how they handle her in the next film and I have a theory I will share in a bit.  I think it's ironic that the only one of the big 3 from the OT to be dead in real life is the only one of the big 3 still alive in the movies.

Kylo- I was pleased when i thought he had turned when he killed Snoke (a lot of clapping and "Wooo"ing from the audience in the theater both times i saw it) but I was even more pleased when he revealed his true intentions.  I hear a lot of people have a theory that Snoke knew all along what he was doing (he did say he knew all of Kylo's intentions) and he may have "force jumped" his conciousness into Kylo, but I disagree.  Kylo was WAAAY too emotional when Luke showed up on Crait.  If Snoke was in control, he would have been cool about it.  I think he will be much more in control and Vader-esque next episode.

Snoke- so we didn't learn a whole lot about Snoke and a lot of people seem to be up in arms about it.  Let's think back to when I was 11 years old and ROTJ came out.  We knew JACK SQUAT about the Emperor and NO SEEMED TO GIVE A DAMN!  Why is it such a big deal now?  Because a lot of fanboys theorized about his origins and they were disappointed?  I don't get it.  Also, we may not have seen the end of him (but I suspect we have.)  We may get a snippet of info about him via a flashback or a couple of lines from Kylo in the next film.

and finally, Luke.  Oh, Luke.  I have seen a LOT of people upset at his portrayal this film, even from Hamill himself.
  I kinda get it and I kinda don't.  Luke has ALWAYS been tempted by the dark side (see Rey above Wink) and let his emotions drive his decisions.  ALWAYS.  Why is it such a shock now and such a disappointment?  I'll tell you why.
 Because all the fans who read the books and comics that Disney said were no longer canon can't get past that.  The Luke in the film never did all the things that the Luke from the extended universe did.  The Luke we see here is the same Luke we see in ANH and TESB except he has, in essence, let the dark side win by closing himself off from the force and running and hiding, letting his emotions make his decisions for him.  This is also why he almost killed Ben at the school; his fear and hatred were driving his decisions.  He caught himself at the last second, but it was too late.  I was oh so sad to see him die (and hated how he did die) because I wanted to see him redeem not only himself, but the entire Jedi religion because he was right; the Jedi became complacent and they let Palpatine slip in under all their noses due to their hubris.  I want to see the Jedi rebuilt more in the image that Luke has for them as true peace keepers and defenders of the light so I hope we see him, along with Yoda and Ben as force ghosts in the next film.  I also loved his scene on Crait.  

My two favorite scenes from the movie are, of course, the two big fight scenes.  The dogfight at the beginning and the fight with Kylo and Rey against Snoke's guards.  My only gripe there is, when the guard had Kylo in that choke hold,
 why didn't he use the force to throw the attacker off him?

big let downs- not much.  I really thought the code breaker was going to be Lando, and along those lines, why don't we know anything about what happened to Lando after ROTJ?  I hope they fix that glaring mistake in the next film if nothing more than a line from Poe about what happened to him.  I mean, Nien Nunb is still in the Alliance.  Surely he kept tabs with Lando.  Sheesh. Also, Phasma is the new Boba Fett.

Theories for the next film:  It takes place years after this one and Rey is training new jedi (we all know the kid at the end who uses the force to grab the broom is a sign that the force is trying to balance itself with the births of more force sensitive children, right?) with the help of force ghosts Luke, Yoda and Ben (and perhaps Anakin?).  Leia has died a natural death and Poe is the new leader of the Alliance with Finn as his second in command.  Chewbacca sticks with Rey at the training temple (and hopefully has a larger role in the next film which does NOT include him dying!) and assists her however he can and still upkeeps the Falcon.  Kylo has put his team back together of the Jedi trainees who left Luke's school with him and they rule with an iron grip and continue to search for the new Jedi training center.  Massive battle at the end including a dogfight with the First Order which finds Poe back in an X-wing and a massive Jedi battle which finds Ben finally turning back t the light with help of force ghost Luke who brings along the ghost of Han and for one final hurrah, a CGI force ghost Leia.

PHEW!  gotta get some sleep now.  Merry Christmas to all my fellow Realmers and may the force be with you all!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 09:47:33 PM by jedicow » Logged

Perry
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« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 08:55:58 AM »

I agree,

I still say

having Leia "come back" was stupid and I hated it with a fiery passion. What makes it worse is, and this is a tad morbid, but knowing what we know now, about Carrie's death, it would have been a fantastic end to her saga and so fitting as well had they kept her dead in space. It would have worked on so many levels.

And I still get goose bumps when Luke is seen through all that smoke after the bombardment of fire
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2017, 09:16:45 PM »

I don't believe I'll really ever rewatch this movie that much.

I'll see it again at some point...but no time real soon.

I've watched Rogue One once...and have no intention to actively ever watch it again.

This movie may move into that realm for me.

But I love the discussion of it. Grin

I'm glad it reaches people in any manner...boredom or dismissal of it would simply have been the worst!! Wink
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2017, 09:58:24 AM »

Iíve seen it twice. No real opinion change after seeing it again. My daughter and nephew loved it.  If it does for them what the original did for me when I was 10 then I consider it a success.  I wanted more for Luke (and apparently so did Mark Hamill) but in the context of what they were doing I can live with his part of the story.

On a side note, whatís with the hate for Rogue One?  I thought that was a great stand alone film with fun characters.  I even own my own copy.   Grin
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2017, 11:05:00 AM »

On a side note, whatís with the hate for Rogue One?  I thought that was a great stand alone film with fun characters.  I even own my own copy.   Grin

Not hate, at least from me, but it is just not that great a movie. One based on seemingly on complete happenstance most of the time and one of those movies that every other scene is one that makes no sense what-so-ever.

Just a couple examples, of the countless ones in the movie, that make me go "really?" -

Why does Kreenic's ship land soooo far away, in that huge open field, from the home of Galen Erso? Why not land, oh, I don't know, right next to it?

Why are the controls to the dish realignment on a platform, so far away from everything else? We got the "what a strange place" in New Hope, but at least that was in a spot that made a little sense. A tad at least.

Any and everything to do with Saw Gerrera   Undecided Cheesy

It was also like 6 different writers wrote the movie, and they kept all the ideas as it was quite disjointed at times.

I could go on, and again, I don't hate the movie, it isn't trash in my eyes, I like it better than the awful prequels by a good bit, but it isn't as good as the other 5 for me, so 6th place it is. Although without Tudyk ... It would have been closer to those damn prequels.
 Shocked
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2017, 11:39:30 AM »

I border on hating Rogue One, but it's really not worth my personal effort to invest that kind of emotion to it, so I just call it a nothing movie that sits on the 'highly uninteresting' aspect for me.

What really REALLY turned me against the movie?

The Rebellion calling it quits. Learning about the Death Star, and what the Empire can show, and they just throw in the towel. THEN the next scene they tell the Rogue One group that they can't have the Empire shuttle that they stole! WTF! I'd tell command to piss off right then and there.

Oh, then the Rebellion finds their heart after the next scene to attack on the rescue mission of the data. Big deal.  Roll Eyes

The entire video game ending of retrieiving the data, the stupid climbing and jumping, then the DAMNED STUPID WALKWAY 50 FEET AWAY FROM THE TERMINAL. I don't expect to see Microsoft windows OS on these movies, but there has to be at least some engineer that goes 'well, that was dumb.'

No, I don't like Rogue One. I'd rather watch Revenge of the Sith any day over that-willingly.

I may watch 'Revenge' over 'Last Jedi.'

I know people are calling the inclusion of the character Rose as an amazing <Asian> character, and another woman of strength, but all I saw was a mouthpiece that continued to remind Finn to stay on the correct path-and then fulfilling her role in the movie by falling in love with Finn. She could have been a grasshopper or a ridiculous magical snowman and fulfilled that Disney role.

This typing sounds like a lot of vitriol, I guess. ...and maybe it is....so....ignore everything as you like.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2017, 11:37:05 AM »



Thoughts on this guys opinion?

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Jeff McReynolds
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2017, 12:05:26 PM »

That was hilarious.  I think he has a good point and his argument on Luke may have won me over.  It also reinforces what I was trying to say above.  It isnít what I wanted but it was still a good movie. And Iím ok with that right now.  Star Wars has always been for that starry eyed 10 year old and I think this will create a new generation of fans. I know it worked on my 10 year old. Her favorite characters are Rey (of course) and Finn.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
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