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Author Topic: AVENGERS  (Read 910 times)
Perry
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« on: August 22, 2016, 06:21:55 AM »

As Waids current title All-New Avengers will soon be just Avengers, I decided to label this thread that, for ease of future discussions.
 Wink

Okay, it had to happen. After talking about how boring and un-Waid like the "All-New Avengers" title has turned out to be, I read issue #13 and my opinion changes just like that. Well, no, that is not right. The first 12 issues ... or first 10 actually as the Negative Zone story was decent ... as the first 10 issues were just a chore for me to get through, the 13th issue hits and all is now good in the world.

The amazing thing about this? This issue is kind of a tie-in with Civil War (okay, it's a stretch of a tie-in, but still  Cheesy)

Also amazing? It seems I can no longer type "amazing" without trying to capitalize it into "Amazing". Damn Spider-Man!!!
 Cheesy

Anywho, this book was a pretty good read, a take on the "If you could go back in time to when Hitler was a baby ..." idea, but this time using Kang. A character I have had problems with before but hopefully ...

Kang. Ugh. Just way too much time stuff ... I do need to go back and read Busiek's Avengers Forever, a now defunct book, to even get a grasp on Kang .. and that puppy isn't the easiest read. Hopefully this new Waid arc will make Kang a little easier for my head to grasp.
 Cheesy

Hoping this All New Non-Boring Avengers continues ... at least for another 3 months when the team splits
 Smiley

7 outta 10 - Whispers that topple mountains

Marvel does love their whispers. One character just whispers and he can destroy ... well, mountain tops  Grin. Mary Jane whispers to Mephisto (had to get that damn thought back in my head Angry), Nick Fury to Thor (to make him "unworthy" ...  Cheesy ...  Cheesy Cheesy ... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  Cheesy Cheesy:D ...  Undecided) and now we get a whisper hitting Visions ear about Kang?
Hmmmm I wonder what this one entails?
 Smiley
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Perry
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 07:10:07 AM »

Please note when I post in this "Avengers" thread I will only be talking about the Main Avengers title or in this case, Waid's All-New, All blah, blah Avengers.
 Wink
Yes, you could argue that any of the other Avengers titles are the "Main" Avengers, especially the one with Captain America on it, but this one has a Cap too (although not THE Cap) and this book doesn't have Deadpool as a member. Deadpool, an Avenger? Not on my watch.
 Cheesy
But anyway ...

Just like Justice League is failing DC as their premiere "flagship team book", so is this title failing for Marvel. There is just no passion here. I have hung on for months now and while it did get a little better during issues 11-12 or 13 or something like that (and there was an annual that was okay), with issue #14 we find ourselves ... no ... that's not fair ... I find myself right back where I was. Just not caring.

The good news for younger folks is this is a story about the new Wasp. A character hopefully some young kid will latch onto and make their favorite character. The bad news for us older fans is this is a story about the new Wasp. Another "new" character that only serves to make us older readers miss our older version of the character.

Again, I know full well what Marvel is doing this. They HAVE to try and get new readers. I get it. And I think they are doing a great job of trying to get a lot of the newer books aimed at those younger readers (Ms. Marvel, Patsy Walker, Squirrel Girl, Red Dinosaur and Moon Girl, Etc ...) into those "Schoolastic" type readers and/or order forms (remember those?  Smiley), but for us older readers ... eh.

Not that this title is going the younger way too much. No, that is what its offshoot "The Champions" will be (and yes, I will try it  Grin), but I think this title is suffering for some reason and maybe that is the reason. Maybe the set-up for the break-up and the reason the younger heroes leave the Avengers is what is bogging this series down now? I don't know. All I do know is I can't wait for this title to reset at that lovely #1 so we can try again.
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 12:37:04 PM »

Another half year or more of waiting on Unlimited for this title to do something good, and it still becomes lame or a waste in the end? Dammit, Waid@!!!
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 04:58:18 PM »

I'm telling ya, it does not get even close to good until around issue 10 or so  Undecided I keep saying it and saying it and ...
 Grin
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Perry
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 08:44:22 AM »

Adjective-less Avengers Issue #1

(Slight spoilers ahead for MU readers, but nothing major)

Finally, we have an Avengers title again. Now before you get too happy, I only mean in name alone. It has been a long while since we have had an "Avengers" title. No All-New or anything unnecessary, just plain ole Avengers.

That said, finally, we have an Avengers title again. Yes this time I mean the story. This is Waid doing what Waid does best, mess with time. Haha, Waid does Kang like nobodies business and here we get the continuation of a Kang story that started back in Avengers #13 but is still basically just the start of this arc.

The only thing I think people will have issues with, probably, is the art. So much so that when I checked Marvel's own site to get reminded of said artists name, they only have the writer: Mark Waid and the "Cover Artist": Alex Ross listed. Is that a sign of being scared? Maybe. I would take it as a shot against me if I were the artist, but hey lets get to the meat of it.

When he was on WeirdWorld, Mike Del Mundo was the perfect artist. His style was literally the best look for that book. It was amazing. It added so much to the incredibly fun story. It was the perfect fit. But ... here, on Avengers, there are times when even I (a Mundo fan) struggled greatly with the art. It is really sad as I think, story wise, this was a great start for this title, but the art, this art, was so ... not good. It just really killed the momentum to this story. Again, I say that as a fan of Del Mundo's work. It is just not good for "Hero" work. Put him back on Weirdworld and I will be first in line to buy it, but not here. Just not on capes and spandex.

Still, for those that can get past it, I think the story (or beginning of the story that this is truly) is good. It's strong enough. If you can get past the art. And on some panels, you will just not be able to. I can promise you that.
 Undecided

Due to that art factor ...

6 outta 10 screams of "I miss the days when the artist also did the interiors!!!!"
 Cheesy
 
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Perry
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 03:53:07 AM »

Avengers #1 and #2

While the story has gotten ... better ... I am not really enjoying this art. I liked the style and look when it was in Weirdworld, but here, with spandex and cape, not so much.

 Undecided
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Perry
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 06:15:30 AM »

Man, I don't know what to say other than an artist that I do enjoy, on most things, is just bringing this story down for me. It is just not clicking. This story is just so hard to read. While I can normally slide the art out of the way with books that the art is not the greatest ... at least for an issue or two ... here I can't ignore the art at all, it just overtakes the entirety of all the panels to the point the text balloons become part of the art and it is effecting my reading enjoyment

I am just gonna have to push this title away until we get an artistic change. I am hoping Del Mundo gets onto a title that I think better fits his overpowering style (like a space opera type with lots of aliens), but I am just not enjoying his "Caped" work.
 Embarrassed
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Jeff
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 04:41:50 PM »

Man, I don't know what to say other than an artist that I do enjoy, on most things, is just bringing this story down for me. It is just not clicking. This story is just so hard to read. While I can normally slide the art out of the way with books that the art is not the greatest ... at least for an issue or two ... here I can't ignore the art at all, it just overtakes the entirety of all the panels to the point the text balloons become part of the art and it is effecting my reading enjoyment

I am just gonna have to push this title away until we get an artistic change. I am hoping Del Mundo gets onto a title that I think better fits his overpowering style (like a space opera type with lots of aliens), but I am just not enjoying his "Caped" work.
 Embarrassed


Avengers 1 - I feel the same way about the art as you do.  I also didn't like the dialogue or characterization. Just off for me.  I did like the plot and the idea of this story.  Was going to stick around to see how that plays out but if Perry, who liked all but the art, can't stick it out I may just go ahead and skip this.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Jimmy T
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 06:39:26 PM »

I think I posted my thoughts in the Weekly Reader.

The art of Del Mundo on #1 made me immediately drop the idea of reading #2. I think there's some interesting stuff there (I love Kang/Immortus stuff!!!), but most of the team I didn't immediatley care for, I don't like Petey Stark here, and yeah, the art. No thanks.
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Jimmy T since 2001
Jeff
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2017, 05:39:35 AM »

I think I posted my thoughts in the Weekly Reader.

The art of Del Mundo on #1 made me immediately drop the idea of reading #2. I think there's some interesting stuff there (I love Kang/Immortus stuff!!!), but most of the team I didn't immediatley care for, I don't like Petey Stark here, and yeah, the art. No thanks.

Petey Stark is exactly what I was thinking about in regards to characterization.  Just bad.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2017, 06:31:20 AM »

The art of Del Mundo on #1 made me immediately drop the idea of reading #2.

And I can totally see and understand why. I need to go look at the editor of this title and find out who the hell thought that DelMundo was a fit for this book?

Again, and Jimmy may still feel the same and I get why, but again Del Mundo's work on Weirdworld, no capes or at least limited appearances, was fine. Not for everyone surely (for examples see - "Jimmy"  Grin), but there was a nice bit of storytelling there. In this title he just clouds all the characters into one big glob of color. No distinction. No true definition. Just a big ole' 'plop' of color.

It is sad too as this book has one of the finest Kang stories I have read and I hate Kang.
 Cheesy
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2017, 11:57:30 AM »

Hm, guess I should clarify.

Del Mundo's art on this Avengers title makes me say no way, jose. That, and Waid's presentation of some charcters, the presence of some characters all contribute to me saying 'I haven't read nor enjoyed a prime Avengers title since before Secret Wars.'

I could see Del Mundo doing some nice work elsewheres. No problem. Hell, even on a different Marvel title. I just don't think his look is a look for this team book though.
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2017, 12:03:43 PM »

No need to clarify, I knew you were talking about the Avengers title art and nothing else.

I just thought I would throw the other stuff in. I wasn't saying nor thought that you hated the art as a presentation of itself, only on said title.
 Smiley
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2017, 07:28:41 PM »

Yeah just call it me not understanding the content of the post, Perry. I wasn't sure if I said wrong or poorly or, quite honestly, just garbled. I was just confused.  Huh

Sa'll good!!  Grin
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2017, 03:57:30 AM »

Yeah just call it me not understanding the content of the post, Perry. I wasn't sure if I said wrong or poorly or, quite honestly, just garbled. I was just confused.  Huh


Oh trust me, I know of what you speak. Oh, how I know!!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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