HR Boards
November 24, 2017, 04:02:11 AM*

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome back Realmers!
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Marvel fans are ... idiots  (Read 979 times)
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 10773



« on: June 21, 2016, 02:50:05 PM »

Okay, first of all I don't mean all Marvel fans. I'm a Marvel fan and I am certainly not st ... okay, bad example  Cheesy but of course all Marvel fans are not stupid ... just the ones I just spent the last hour talking to. They are pissed/upset/angry about DC handing Marvel a good ass whuppin' in the sales (like why did they expect anything else, first off?  Roll Eyes) and so they are bringing up all kinds of idiotic reasons why this is happening and how short a time this sales explosion will be for DC

Look, as a Marvel fan I think DC generating all this interest is a good thing. A great thing. The better DC does the more Marvel has to try to be better. DC doing this great in sales (Congrats to DC by the way!!!) does nothing but help Marvel fans. Maybe Marvel will no longer push out over 100 issues in one month when fans are crying that they can't afford to buy even the titles they love, much less try new titles? Perhaps Marvel will stop doing the "yearly event" which so many times just forces writers into a corner when they were in the middle of telling "their" story. Maybe Marvel will stop feeling like they can charge $12 dollars for a comic and know they can get away with it because I gotta tell ya folks ... before DC's Rebirth ... they certainly were starting to think they could. And they were not wrong.

I won't get into sales being effected by alternate covers shit. A small part of me hopes the industry nose dives due to speculation again. Does no-one remember the 90's? No, if shops want to buy 250 copies of a title that they usually only sell 50 copies of, that shit is on them. We already had one shop locally close its doors and I think, though I can't confirm, it was because of stupid practices such as that. I don't blame Marvel (or anyone) for selling those damn, stupid things. No, this is about Marvel, looking at the sales for the last 3 years or so and thinking they can pretty much do anything.

But now, with DC starting to "flip the script" as the young ones use to say (I am sure they no longer say that as I am an old fart that just got use to saying it so ... yeah, that is a dead saying without question Cheesy), I, as a Marvel fan, love it. LOVE IT!!! But so many jack-wads are so damn "brand-blind" it is just ridiculous.

Its like that childish shit I see whenever I have to go to a gaming forum with a question about my PS4 or a game. All you see is asshats screaming "PS4 sucks". "X-BONE is crap" and I just scratch my head and think, why can't they both have good points? Don't get me wrong, I am a PS4 dude all the way. WaHoo.  Cheesy But I don't hate on the X-Box 1 (or whatever it really is called  Cheesy) It was due to the X-Box (and others) that I became such a huge PS4 fan. Without them, without that competition driving the fire you get stagnant. Or, perhaps like Marvel, you feel invincible.

Thank you DC. I hope your high sales continue for a long time. I will read your books and enjoy the hell out of them (the good ones of course  Grin) and I will also still be a Marvel fan and read the hell out of their books (even the mediocre ones  Cheesy), but all the other Marvel fans that are bashing DC or making excuses ... just shut the F' up!!!

Peace
 Cool
Logged
Wringer
HR Super Hero
*****
Posts: 788



« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2016, 05:15:19 PM »

agreed...it really doesn't matter if whatever sales gains DC get is from a limited bump in sales (ie: 52) or a real resurgence to the top of the charts.  Since 52 only Batman has remained above 100K in orders.  and the better the competition the better your product must be so i am also glad DC has finally picked up its game and I truly hope they  can maintain the quality as it only puts more pressure on Marvel to do the same.  I am also sooooo done with event every 4-6months it forces all books into a group mind and we loose the individual momentum of the character and the writers as you stated are "encouraged" to join the fun to the detriment of their own storylines

that said, what sales#s are you looking at...last few months was dominated by Marvel
May:
Marvel: 44.80% unit shares/39.64% dollar shares.
DC Comics: 26.34% in units/26.45% in dollars

April:
MARVEL COMICS   47.87% units/42.98% dollars
DC ENTERTAINMENT   25.13% units/25.82% dollars

March
MARVEL COMICS   42.717% units/37.39% dollar
DC ENTERTAINMENT   25.94% units/26.32% dollar
In April 2016, Marvel accounted for 52.60% of the total unit sales in the top 300 comics. DC accounted for 27.24%

i cant even remember the last time DC was on top for units or dollars sold
Logged
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 10773



« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2016, 06:18:30 PM »

that said, what sales#s are you looking at

This months
 Wink

Okay, there are no numbers yet, but I am looking at the books leaving the shelves, talking to owners, customers and listening to shops around the country and DC is killing Marvel right now in the stores. Reorders are huge and owners are going back and rethinking their FOCs. DC is outselling Marvel in the shops by a large margin. Destroying them.
It may not show up in the "sales to stores" yet (I can't believe there is no way to actually tell how many copies of and issue were sold to customers nationally and not just sold to stores), I am sure a lot of owners were 52 gun shy so still may have ordered somewhat small (Although my big shop here did not, order a ton and still selling each day). However, I am also hearing this Rebirth is selling way better than 52.

June numbers should be a lot different than the past 47 months.  Grin

My most curious question is will those final numbers (sold to stores) show Marvel is still hitting in the 40% range and so is DC or will it show Marvel sliding down and DC taking over.

After what I have seen and heard ... I would not be surprised to see DC at 50% and Marvel at 30% (though yes, that may be overzealous of me
 Wink

I just hope it holds long enough for Marvel to start sweating and make a few changes. Like again, stop having over 100 titles a month. You're just killing new books as no-one can afford to buy them.

But from what I hear Marvel may have another trick up their sleeve.  >: Like an end to all this character switcharoo. I think, and this maybe a Civil War II spoiler but I have no true idea whatsoever
but isn't it about time that Thor got his book back? He does have a movie around the corner. I think Foster will die and Thor will return to his title and thus the beginning of Marvel's

All New, All Different, All Rhetorical as We Changed Back to The Way it Was
Grin

EDIT - And hey, I got an idea, next time any of you Realmers are near a comic shop, swing in and see how many DC Rebirth and how many Civil War II's issues are on the shelves. Not using that one Marvel title as the end all be all for indicating sales vs DC, just for my own personal accounting.
 Grin
(Oh, and make sure the Rebirth or the new series starting #1's I mean are first print and not second or thirds or fourths or fi...  Cheesy)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 06:23:50 PM by Perry » Logged
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 10773



« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 07:47:07 AM »

And to further show why I think DC will really kick Marvels butt in June and July (At least in the top ten numbers ... where most of the totals come from), Here are the reviews of DC Rebirth titles, on average, so far (Thanks to ComicBook Round-up for all this info, a great site, found HERE, that collects reviews from around the internet and averages them all for a nice easy way to get a baseline on what readers, or at least these reviewers  Cheesy are thinking). I am also only posting the rebirth labeled titles, even though DC has been getting more and more good reviews on their older titles as well, mostly.

Using CBRU's color system:
Green means a very good comic
Yellow means an average book. Not great, not horrible
Red means not good at all. Forget it
(again, according to the reviewers)

But using a % for the ratings. They use an "out of ten" ranking, decimal point system, but I think a percentage of 100 shows up better, so...
 Cheesy

MAY -
DC Rebirth - 88%

JUNE 1 -
Batman: Rebirth - 82%
Green Arrow: Rebirth - 85%
Green Lanterns: Rebirth - 78%
Superman: Rebirth - 72% (just missed green which hits at 75%)

JUNE 8 -
Action Comics #957 - 77%
Aquaman: Rebirth - 70%
Detective Comics #934 - 84%
Flash: Rebirth - 80%
Wonder Woman: Rebirth - 77%

JUNE 15 -
Batman #1 - 83%
Green Arrow #1 - 82%
Green Lanterns #1 - 73%
Superman #1 - 82%
Titans: Rebirth - 80%

JUNE 22 - (So far)
Action Comics #958 - 81%
Aquaman #1 - 69%
Detective Comics #935 - 80%
Flash #1 - 75%
Wonder Woman #1 - 81%

That's a lot of green. Compare that to the review numbers all the Civil War books are getting ... Marvel's big event or even more importantly, if you compare that, the general praise DC is getting for THIS reset compared to their last relaunch, It is huge difference that I hope ... HOPE has lasting ramifications. All good ramifications of course.
 Grin

EDIT - I also feel that DC did themselves no favor by having the word "Rebirth" on all the number ones. I am hearing shops complain that some of their customers almost walked out without buying some of the new number ones as the thought they just got them and were the same issue with a different cover. Lost sales are resulting from this.

Seeing "Superman: Rebirth #1" almost looks the same as seeing "DC Universe Rebirth Superman #1".

A very stupid move by DC if you ask me. Why not use a "0" issue for Rebirth: #1 titles?

Heck, say you're a totally new customer (or hell perhaps a well seasoned one in a hurry) Which of these comics issue #1, or are they both the same but with just a different cover?



Hell, I may even think, with the way the banners are laid, that the Flash #1 is actually the Rebirth special and the Rebirth Special is actually Flash #1

You know what I mean, guys?
 Undecided
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:59:22 AM by Perry » Logged
Wringer
HR Super Hero
*****
Posts: 788



« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 11:47:46 AM »

ok then...great info and i will definately chk my LCS to see what kind of buy through they are seeing.  Unfortunately i do not go as often as i used to due to MCU.  i havent been to the shop in nearly 3 month  Shocked  My local shop (The Bat Cave) is a mess and the staff is your stereotypical shop owner...only interested in what they are doing and their "regulars" barely lift their head out of the book or the magic came they are in to acknowledge you walked in their doors.  the other is a
Hastings...no one knowledgable works there so its not even worth the time but i plan to go to my store (Kapow, about 30min away) this week

Really hope DC can keep it up and put some pressure on Marvel and i hope it lasts longer than the 3-4months they got out of 52 launch that also "spelled the doom of Marvels dominance".  i would love to see DC beat Marvel with more units and dollar share at a 2.99 price point.  Hopefully they will rethink the 3.99-5.99 books and the ever increasing event books.

i miss the days that events would unfold in the normal books with maybe a double sized start and end book.  character can cross over without needing tie-in books.

Just tell good storied within the title.

Logged
Jeff
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 8959



WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 06:21:07 PM »

So they are losing sales because of the title confusion (which I agree with you on) and they are still flying of the shelf faster than Marvel.  Impressive.

It's also a result of the new shines thing plus two issues coming out a month.  Proof will be when we get past the first arcs me thinks.
Logged

"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 10773



« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 07:33:12 AM »

ok then...great info and i will definately chk my LCS to see what kind of buy through they are seeing.  Unfortunately i do not go as often as i used to due to MCU.  i havent been to the shop in nearly 3 month  Shocked  My local shop (The Bat Cave) is a mess and the staff is your stereotypical shop owner...only interested in what they are doing and their "regulars" barely lift their head out of the book or the magic came they are in to acknowledge you walked in their doors.  the other is a
Hastings...no one knowledgable works there so its not even worth the time but i plan to go to my store (Kapow, about 30min away) this week

Well I damn sure don't blame ya for not going (or making an effort to go) to those two stores. I have one here, the closet one to me, literally 20 blocks away, that I just can't stomach going to. I do because I like seeing what his wall looks like when I am thinking off stuff like this, but other than that, nope, he isn't getting any of my money. He is curt and very dismissive with anyone new walking in and it just irks the hell outta me. Of course his shop is failing as well, so there's that. I wonder ... is there any correlation with the two? His shop doing poorly and the way he treats potentially new customers? HHmmm
 Cheesy

Really hope DC can keep it up and put some pressure on Marvel and i hope it lasts longer than the 3-4months they got out of 52 launch that also "spelled the doom of Marvels dominance".  i would love to see DC beat Marvel with more units and dollar share at a 2.99 price point.  Hopefully they will rethink the 3.99-5.99 books and the ever increasing event books.

That is what I am hoping for. I just want Marvel, again, who I am a huge fan of normally, to just look at some of their practices a little closer. It is easy to to place your will on folks when you are the king of sales and it is even easier to place your will when people still buy your wares no-matter what you do. But if DC can maintain this, they may have to start doing something else at least.

But don't forget that while DC is doing us readers all a favor by having books at $2.99, they are also double shipping those very same books. So instead of paying $4 a month for a title, DC fans, on most titles, will pay $6.

i miss the days that events would unfold in the normal books with maybe a double sized start and end book.  character can cross over without needing tie-in books.

I like character concentric events more than large company wide events. Yes, it is cool to have a huge company wide event every 5 years or so to give the readers a bigbang (small "b"), massive type of Marvel Universe story or even a company wide event every 10 to 12 years or so, ya know, to fix potential writing/editing issues that have characters reset to what the company needs them to be in a Big Bang (capital "B"), massive type of story. However this every year or every time we turn around shit ... that needs to stop.

I am enjoying Civil War II, more than I imaged I would even, but I damn sure wouldn't have been upset if this didn't happen until another 4 years of event free storytelling.

But give me a Spider-Man event, even one that crosses over to all the Spider related comics, or a Street Wise event crossover with Moon-Knight, Punisher and Daredevil titles and I am a happy camper
 Grin

It's also a result of the new shines thing plus two issues coming out a month.  Proof will be when we get past the first arcs me thinks.

Absolutely. 100% correct. It's the movie "UP" version of "Squirrel !!" (found in the clip below for any of you heartless S.O.B.'s that never saw that great movie  Wink Cheesy)





It is the same with Nu52. Sold like gangbusters the first three months and petered to sales abysmal. But this Rebirth, so far (and according to everything I see and all the owners I talk to and hear) is not only selling better than Nu52 at the onset, but also receiving far better reviews. I, and I am sure all hardcore DC fans, are really hoping that this time DC can maintain the buzz, keep that fire and excitement going, and give Marvel a run for longer than 2 or 3 months.

I am trying to find some Nu52/Rebirth sales reports, but I guess I will have to wait until Comichron tells us the numbers sold to stores, though I hate using just that as a tool for sales as it only shows what the stores bought, not what the customers actually purchased. Heck, Civil War #1 may have had 100,000 copies sold to stores, but I know ... at least in this area ... in isn't selling like a 100,000 ordered comic.
 Undecided

(And on a side note ... how sad is it that 100,000 is now the guide to a comic selling really well when these little puppies use to sell in the millions. And I don't just mean in the 90's speculators heyday)
 Undecided

EDIT - I just jumped over to check the sales charts for May (again, to the stores not to the customers) and found that for May, the order totals were thus:

DC - Rebirth issue one shot - $2.99 - 235,791 issues
Marvel - Civl War #0 issue  - $4.99 - 177,283 issues

Now two things here though - DC sure had help with their title only costing stores about $1.35 while Marvel's Civil War probably (no exact knowledge here folks) cost stores $2.25
(both numbers are based on a 45% of cover cost to stores. Some stores may pay more because they order less and some stores pay less because they order more. Let's face it, DCBS is not paying 45% of cover to get their books  Wink Grin) So it's depending on size of orders at times. Also returnable items sometimes plays a role in costs as well, but hell, you get me. this is just an number thrown out.  Cheesy)

So right from the start DC has the edge of being cheaper to order. Plus, DC makes a some of their books returnable within the first couple months so that helps, although I am not sure if Rebirth qualified but if they did, there is also that in DC's favor.

I also know that both titles have gone to second print ... however, what I may need to go look at is how many copies of the first prints are still on the shelves. Did Civil War and Rebirth really sell out or is this one of those second print, speculator resell on Bbay thing (Yes, buyers are actually paying top dollar for 2nd and 3rd print books now because they are rare ...Huh HAHAHA) Anyway, yes, there is a demand for second print books even if the 1st print is still on the shelf. Amazing and stupid as that sounds.
 Cheesy

But yeah, I will try and check here, if I can get out sometime this week, so if you guys go into a comic shop (no special trips please, just if you are there), maybe you can see if they have copies of each of these and what print they have ... if any?
 Smiley
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 08:50:45 AM by Perry » Logged
Jimmy T
Global Moderator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 3985



« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 07:16:45 PM »

There is so much to read here, it just blew a tired Jimmy's mind to pieces.

Um, go DC? Marvel; don't be dumb? DC; don't screw it up?

I agree to those thoughts. Cheesy
Logged

Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
Just an old man
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 10773



« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 07:47:13 AM »

So the August sales estimates (to retailers only) are out and .... and ... hahahahaha ... Marvel comes in with just seven titles in the top 40 comics.
 Cheesy
And even better? Three of those seven are Star Wars titles, soooo, not really "Marvel Heroes" and two of the seven are Amazing Spider-Man!!!

So take out those five:
Star Wars #22
Darth Vader #24
Han Solo #3
Amazing Spider-Man #16
Amazing Spider-Man #17

and the only two that hit the top 40 are:
Spider-Man/Deadpool #8 (yes, another Spidey book)
and
Black Panther #5

Wow!! As a Marvel fan, that is what I like to see.  Grin Keep this up DC and Marvel will have no choice but to turn their game plan around, at least slightly!!!

Again, I understand Marvel is trying to (wisely) get younger and more diverse readers, but they are doing it the wrong way.
*He says, sitting at his desk, with no business degree or facts*  Cheesy.
Stop filling up the racks with 100's of titles a month.
Stop changing characters into new characters and just make better new characters.
Stop "event"ing us to death. Yes I know they sell well, because retailers make money on the Alternate covers, but people are not reading them because
A) They ... okay ... me are/am just tired of them
B) The constant lateness of the issues, regardless of the reasons.
C) The way they interrupt other writers from telling stories THEY want to tell.

Again, loving what DC is doing both in sales and inside their books right now. Hope Marvel sees that I am not alone in this feeling and will make me feel the same about them before too much longer.
 Smiley

Of course the good news is looking at the sales numbers for all the titles in the top 100, a lot of sales are up everywhere, so that is good great !!!
 Smiley

EDIT - HERE is the link if you guys want to check out some numbers and what not.
 Smiley
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 07:48:55 AM by Perry » Logged
Jeff
Administrator
HR Celestial
*****
Posts: 8959



WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 09:51:11 AM »

My personal opinion is that when people want to read Captain America, Thor, Hulk, or Iron Man they are wanting to read about Steve Rogers, Man Thor, Bruce Banner, and Tony Stark.  And despite the movie rights battles, they want the real Uncanny X-Men.  Not 14 million knock off mutants and teams.  Oh, and the Fantastic Four without the Future Foundation.

And for gawds sake, take politics out of the comics.

And, yeah, that event thing you guys were talking about.


 Grin
Logged

"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  

 B l a c k - R a i n V.2 by C r i p ~ Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines MySQL | PHP | XHTML | CSS