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Author Topic: Jessica Jones  (Read 2315 times)
Jimmy T
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2015, 09:42:19 AM »

I guess I'll keep this in the spoilers tag; don't know how much of this is just impressions.

By the way, around Ep 5 The Sandwich

Part of what keeps this show from being really great to me is how ponderously slow it is. It seems bloated on its available screen time. As if, knowing that they have 52-55 minute episodes, the writers/directors/producers can just seemingly waste time on minutae.

I think, much like Daredevil, that by the end of this, I'll believe they could have just trimmed 2 episodes off the entire viewing run. In this Sandwich ep alone, we watched her trail the junkie (Michael??) 3 times to the same spot in the park. To pause, to watch, to consider; as the junkie stood, and looked, and fretted, and was given directions. I just want to say 'get to the point already! your build up isn't as amazing as you believer, show makers!'

But-BUT-I think the detail of the hurt that she, and the other abused and hurt people is really good. It's hard to watch how she tries to be a normal person after being a victim.

However, she apparently was always an asshole, even before Kilgrave. Now, true, she's living with the loss of an accident that took her parents. There is sympathy for this Jessica, but man, it's hard. Well, I should say that I don't like her, but I root for the results she wants to get.

Still, so very bleak, so very very bleak.

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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2015, 09:58:37 PM »

I had a facepalm of epic proportions last night.

Hero best friend! Who? What hero? Her name is Trish.

Trish Walker....Trish, a nickname from Patricia....which also creates a little used nickname of...Patsy....

Patsy Walker, aka Hellcat.

sumnabitch! Idiot!! I was glad to see a bit of Patsy's veeerrrryyy early history briefly  mentioned with all the teen/hearthrob magazines that she was a star of.  Wink

I did the same thing.  How awesome is it that she's in this?  Hoping she'll be in the Defenders too.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 07:17:03 AM »

Yeppers, that is the other hero I didn't want to say anything about.  Grin I had no clue she was going to be on here. And don't feel too bad guys, they didn't use her last name right away. Most of the things you heard or saw (like posters) was just "Trisha". So, maybe you didn't miss it as badly as you thought.
 Grin

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Jimmy T
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 08:35:58 AM »

Alright; the show's done, time to ramble through my thoughts under the spoiler tag.

ALL DONE!

I'll just immediately fill this out with my immediate thought upon seeing credits roll. "That was between meh and okay."

Were there great moments? Oh hell yeah! Can't deny that. Portrayal of characters, portrayal of threats, portrayal of the abuse and what that lead to to create character mood, motivation and interaction. Yes, yes all there.

The show can, and does, make you question if you can or should like Jessica. Obviously, being the titular character, and through many actions, is a hero(ine, if you need that branding). And, I am always in the frame of mind that being a Lawful Good paladin in any roleplaying game doesn't necessarily mean you can't be a jerk or an ass either. Wink

In the end, it's not JJ's performance that brings any part of the show down for me. It's not the noir styling either; I quite liked the passion of the moments and the isolation of abuse that drove many parts.

It's just...not...that...likeable! Of an event!

Here's where I go with that; every time I see an episode of 'Law & Order: SVU' (that damned "doink-doink" gavel sound makes me pay attention channel flipping to see the crime of the week)..um..oh yeah, every time I see an ep I feel worse about myself and life for having watched it. That show does not have happy endings, or resolutions for justice done either. People are dead, abused or worse, and the villain either was killed in apprehension, or may go to jail without enough justice dispensed, and the heroes(cops) can't paint a better picture to the grieving family.

Jessica Jones just left me feeling worse about the victims and the world they have to go. What rehab groups/therapists/counselors or even close friends will be there for someone who was mind controlled? The man who left his young son wherever due to Kilgrave's order is ruined. How can the son ever love his father again? (easy enough, perhaps, if the son can forgive), but what about the mother? She'll never understand. Nor will close friends or acquaintances. Lives are irrevocably ruined everywhere.

Does that make Kilgrave a 'great' villain? Um, perhaps. Does that make him an abysmal, psychotic human being? Damned right. He is a psychopath, through and through. I like how the show does try and make him...endearing, to a bit. The actor is very charismatic in his role, and even though they try to make him a bit sympathetic or relateable, the show at least does not go and try to make him any less a foul human being. That I felt was done well. Without a doubt, he had to die. Everyone knew that. However, the actual act of killing will make any good human being at least think just once "is this what I really should do?" IF nothing else, a good person will still feel remorse about taking another's life.

I'll still say that 2 eps should have been trimmed out of the season. Netflix just spends so much fucking time on minutae. It drags.....so....much. I'm not speaking that Ep 3 or 8 have to go; but 2 episodes worth of air time should have been trimmed. Long pregnant pauses, extended shots of eye looks, long walks; cut some shit out!!

That, and the whole time of Kilgrave's imprisonment in that building was one weird clusterfuck of writing and happenstance that was befuddling to watch. I kept going "what the hell is GOING on here?!!" A big hiccup in this season.

I made this comment to a friend; if not for some of the superheroics here, would I have kept up with it? Or, to be more precise, I watched because it was a Marvel show. If this would have been a 'Heroes' spin-off, or something in the 'Powers' universe, would I have cared to keep up? I worry that the needle on the gauge would have crept towards half-'no'.

I didn't hate it. Would I recommend it? Eh...that's the hard part. Depends on the person asking. I know which friends of mine shouldn't watch it, even with their interests in the Marvel Cinematic world.

I'm not looking for 'Superman The Movie' in everything I watch; far from it! It's not like 'Lost' where I tell people to avoid it. If you really love this show; good for you! If you really hate this show; well, good for you, too! Yet, as the show leaves you showing Jessica's self-loathing battling the hope that good can arise, well, I feel the same about the show with those same words. Wink

However...bring on Luke Cage!!!!!! Wahoo!!!!

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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 11:55:45 AM »

I expected nothing else.
 Wink

And that's not a slam, it's just not a show I figured you would enjoy. Too dreary.

Don't get me wrong, technically it has problems, lots, but at the end of the day the story was strong enough to pull it out of the muck that some writers had placed inside. I figured the "dark" feel would be a strike against it from the get go, but on one point I totally disagree, budro,
Kilgrave was perfection!!!!
Tongue

I can still, even through the horrible fight sequences and the much mis-used (and far too often) sex scenes and some questionable writing, give this a solid 8 as it didn't have too many "Oh really?" moments for me ... except for every single thing regarding Ruben. EVERYTHING  Roll Eyes. You name it, it bothered me. From the totally ridiculous like ...
How did Malcolm get the body out of the apartment and all the way to the docks? Drag it through half of Hell's Kitchen or get a taxi and throw the body in the trunk? His sister reacted HOW when she found out about his death? Really? All the way to the creepy incest feeling between he and his sister.
Yeah, hated it all. But basically, the story was decent enough through all the problems I had with it.

Over all, not as good as DD, but not a bad story and a worthy addition to the MUTVU that has me excited about the next round of shows. Yep, an easy 8

Sooo, how would you rate this, Jimmy? Say outta 10 ...what would you give it? Would you say your rating would be more in the 5 range? Or was your dissatisfaction enough to warrant an even lower score? Just curious
 Smiley
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 12:50:36 PM »

I expected nothing else.
 Wink

And that's not a slam, it's just not a show I figured you would enjoy. Too dreary.

Eh, I can like dreary and dark. Hell, as I sit here and think, this Kilgrave and his actions are almost exactly how Stephen King would write the character. And I love Stephen King works!! Wow, I just blew my own mind!!

Quote
Don't get me wrong, technically it has problems, lots, but at the end of the day the story was strong enough to pull it out of the muck that some writers had placed inside. I figured the "dark" feel would be a strike against it from the get go, but on one point I totally disagree, budro,
Kilgrave was perfection!!!!
Tongue

Again, I think I was a bit muddled in my rambling. Kilgrave was an excellent villain. Great use of what a psychopath is. I guess I don't want to say I liked him, as what he did went beyond foul <comic> villainy to full on serial killer. He wasn't...human. It's hard for me to share a human emotional response to a being who is anything but human. It's kind of my reaction to people who loved Travolta and Jackson's characters from Pulp Fiction. They dug their quotes and dress and style-but all I could see were murderers. Nothing about them inspired me to laugh at their faults or enjoy their situations. The sooner dead, the better.

But yeah, Kilgrave was 'wow!' in this show.

Quote
... From the totally ridiculous like ...
How did Malcolm get the body out of the apartment and all the way to the docks? Drag it through half of Hell's Kitchen or get a taxi and throw the body in the trunk? His sister reacted HOW when she found out about his death? Really? All the way to the creepy incest feeling between he and his sister.
Yeah, hated it all. But basically, the story was decent enough through all the problems I had with it.

Yeah...yeah!! How was that believed?!
And the weird twin/sibling love shit they had? I mean, DD liked to do this to show that so many people at 'street level' in NYC are fucked up, but this was so....out there. Although, I think the sister's forgiveness speech to Malcolm at the end was some great writing and presentation. Kinda floored at that moment.

Quote
Over all, not as good as DD, but not a bad story and a worthy addition to the MUTVU that has me excited about the next round of shows. Yep, an easy 8

Sooo, how would you rate this, Jimmy? Say outta 10 ...what would you give it? Would you say your rating would be more in the 5 range? Or was your dissatisfaction enough to warrant an even lower score? Just curious
 Smiley

I would comfortably just say 6. It's above average, but not something I'm telling everyone to watch either. There was much that I was really tuned in for on episodes, but other times where a sudoku just held my interest more. I also wouldn't rewatch this season again. No thank you, I would politely say. I've already had it.

If you're curious, I'd give Daredevil a 7.5-8. (For your own knowledge, I wouldn't give any single season of Arrow higher than 8, either. Some eps hit 10, but some eps were 2 or 3 as well to drag seasons down. So, make of that what you will; at least for a reference and personal tastes. Flash season 1 was probably a 9, to be honest! I think my nostalgia of Buffy would give Season 3 or 6 a 10, if I'm thinking right quick off the top of my head).

I'm also happy to rate things like...a Jackie Chan movie a 4, but man, I love it to death simply for the choreography, stunts, and fights!! even with it being a poor excuse for a movie! Cool
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Jimmy T since 2001
Jimmy T
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2015, 12:56:06 PM »

Also....!!!

NUKE
So is Daredevil's 'Born Again' storyline going to be the story for the Defenders movie? Maybe something as rampant as Kingpin bringing all of Hell's Kitchen/parts of New York laid low, a military unit is brought in for peace and security, lead by Nuke Simpson, and everything just goes to shit with the Defenders rising up as one to protect everyone? That'd be cool!!

So many characters all over the place!!! JJ, Luke Cage, Patsy Walker/(Hellcat someday???), Nuke, Kilgrave! Just wow.

But also, (DD spoiler)
Not one Ben Urich to write about it. Seriously, WTF with that decision??? I understand Night Nurse is going to be the connecting glue, but...still...STILL!!!...I can't...even....Urich...

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Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2015, 06:39:28 AM »

Okay, Jimmy, I understand ya.

However, I think you are a fascinating subject when it comes to good/bad. And I mean that it the nicest, coolest way  Smiley Your thoughts that murderers are murderers perfectly describes your love of DC. At least in the way I had originally describe the difference in the companies (DC/Marvel). I am NOT saying you have a simplistic view, please, please, please don't think that is what I am saying. It is just a straight forward, cut through the fat, point of fact view. Not simplistic. Just factual.
 Grin

I see, using your example, John Travolta as Vincent Vega and I think "How did this guy get this way? Was his childhood shit? Is he just a 'natural born killer'?" I like to delve into the bad characters, regardless of who they are, while the good guys ... I don't know ... the good guys are just too dull most of the time FOR ME (Kinda why I like the "anti-hero", although I hate the term). It's why I have always liked 70's and early 80's Hulk, Punisher, at first, and lots of other not-really-heroes. I like to give lots of thought to the bad guys or to characters that do bad.

You on the other hand ... and I could be wrong, but from everything I can tell ... love to do the same, but for the good guys. You have a strong sense of good, a thin line of acceptance for bad and as such, if you are bad, screw you, not worth my time, but you like to soak up all you can on the good side of things. I think that is what makes Superman so good for you. He is you (don't get cocky  Wink). He represents you, at the heart at least, and I think maybe ... just maybe ... when you see a good guy that is not whole-fully good, you get a bitter taste in your mouth. You like heroes to be heroes. You like Flash, you like that Arrow no longer kills  Smiley

Okay, truth is I am on some really strong meds right now, so this could all be complete bull shit. My way of trying to find out why you didn't care for both DD and Jessica as much as I did. I am just me talking out of my ass as my keyboard waves back and forth  Cheesy but right now, that is what I am thinking.  Cheesy Don't be surprised if tomorrow ... well two more days actually as I have one more day on these  Cheesy ... but don't be surprised if in two days I come back, tail between my legs, questioning what the hell I was thinking when I wrote the above, but for today ...
 Cheesy

Also....!!!

NUKE
So is Daredevil's 'Born Again' storyline going to be the story for the Defenders movie? Maybe something as rampant as Kingpin bringing all of Hell's Kitchen/parts of New York laid low, a military unit is brought in for peace and security, lead by Nuke Simpson, and everything just goes to shit with the Defenders rising up as one to protect everyone? That'd be cool!!

So many characters all over the place!!! JJ, Luke Cage, Patsy Walker/(Hellcat someday???), Nuke, Kilgrave! Just wow.

But also, (DD spoiler)
Not one Ben Urich to write about it. Seriously, WTF with that decision??? I understand Night Nurse is going to be the connecting glue, but...still...STILL!!!...I can't...even....Urich...


Yes, I think you are spot on about the story-line, at least in part with ******* being the foil, or at least part of the foil  Cheesy Wondering how they would fill it all around that story though ... but it has been a long time since I read it ... still remember that art though
 Smiley

And as far as your second comment/spoiler of DD -
What about the fact that the only black guy, of any screen time, gets the damn death nail again? I just knew they were gonna write it so he survived. I mean after Ben especially. (and yes, I still feel bad about Ben  Cry)
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 08:17:30 AM »


Okay, truth is I am on some really strong meds right now, so this could all be complete bull shit.
Naw, we're just talking!  Smiley


I see, using your example, John Travolta as Vincent Vega and I think "How did this guy get this way? Was his childhood shit? Is he just a 'natural born killer'?" I like to delve into the bad characters, regardless of who they are, while the good guys ... I don't know ... the good guys are just too dull most of the time FOR ME (Kinda why I like the "anti-hero", although I hate the term). It's why I have always liked 70's and early 80's Hulk, Punisher, at first, and lots of other not-really-heroes. I like to give lots of thought to the bad guys or to characters that do bad.

You on the other hand ... and I could be wrong, but from everything I can tell ... love to do the same, but for the good guys. You have a strong sense of good, a thin line of acceptance for bad and as such, if you are bad, screw you, not worth my time, but you like to soak up all you can on the good side of things.

I wouldn't say I'm as that hard-lined about the situation. Let's take this; I loved John Wick. I know he was a mob hitman, I know he's killed so many that even 'out of the game' others still fear his name. Yes, he's a murderer. But, he's not entirely remorseless. He had to stop; he had to leave. He performed for hell, and thought he could live in heaven with the love of his life. He lost her, and suffered for it, but tried to continue on. See? REDEMPTION!!!!

That's how I love the bad guys. There wasn't a single redeeming thing about Vega. That, and Tarantino glorifies violence so much to make it appear sexy, and to make his killers appear cool, or above the mortal realm that the rest of the characters inhabit. I <personally> do find it digusting. Wink

I love a bad guy that makes a hero rise that much more. Take 'Endgame' in Batman. Batman should just kill the Joker. He even had the intent. But in the end, he foiled Joker's plans, saved a lot of people, stood up to his fears, and foiled the Joker by humiliating him and taking away the power Batman had over Joker. Great moment. Great, great moment. Smiley

It's not that I won't like the bad guy, or utterly dismiss them. But Kilgrave is irredeemable. Bad, rabid dogs need to get put down. and, let's look at Vader. Killer of the Jedi, we've seen him kill throughout the classic Trilogy on a whim, but he was redeemed. And being redeemed doesn't mean 'wipe the slate clean' but it does mean to attempt to attone for what you've done. Sometimes, that' journey is far harder, and far greater, than any hero story as well.

Much like Batman v Superman has to find redemption for Man of Steel. Grin

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Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 11:19:40 AM »

But without them being vile or evil or bad, prior to their redemption, what would the hero be? The hero would be pointless without the evil. Vader is cool because he is THE dark figure. His redemption didn't make Luke, his villainy did (well, in a round about way  Grin). I actually hate that Vader turned on the Emperor because, well, his bite is now just a bark. I read these Star Wars books and, while I enjoy the hell out of them, I think "Man, this would be so much more impactful if I didn't know that the "guy in black" was gonna puss out".
 Cheesy  

Would you really like it if Joker became redeemed? Is that even possible with him?

I can get you like a good redemption story, everyone does, but if all the bad guys just were shown to be ... remorseful or had a change of heart, evil and villainy would lose its teeth. Vega's lack of any form of compassion, or the way it was presented as such for most of the movie, is what makes that part so much easier to hate.

Again, I think the happiness of "good prevails" is what you enjoy. It's the "S" on your chest is all I'm saying.
 Smiley
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2015, 12:17:02 PM »

I should just go back and re-edit my post before with the line "chance for redemption."

I don't want all villains to be redeemed. Not at all! That's not a point that I wanted to, or wished to make. Apologies there.

I'd say that the villains who have the chance for redemption on their path make for far more interesting characters (in many cases, I'll blithely say). After all, who's more interesting: Darth Vader or Carnage?

To a degree....my interpretation of villainy and scum can honestly alter and change between comics and movies. You don't kill Joker in 2015 because you rob 2020 fans of great Joker stories. Such is the nature of the comic book medium.

In a single movie/visual representation of a rather finite storytelling theme, then Vega and Kilgrave are the antagonists who I would be okay with seeing put 6 feet under. Hell, in that analogy, I see Vega as a far worse "person" than Kilgrave, because he was a "normal" human who made those choices. Kilgrave got himself really warped by experimentation, then by his own psychoses of not knowing if anyone ever told him the truth, and by acting like a spoiled child in every manner because he could, and no one could hold him accountable.

I did laugh at the " was gonna puss out" statement. Alot!  Cheesy

I, too, love to hate a character. I just don't like moving into full disgust of a character. (Vega=full disgust. Kilgrave=love to hate).

And there's always a part of me that likes to second guess the statement of "where would be the hero be without his villain?" I understand this mostly is seen through a literary lens. But I see your roundabout way there. Wink
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2015, 02:44:41 PM »

Cool beans, Jimmy. I get ya. I understand.
 Smiley

I just like to think of what made Vega they way he is. I mean, you are shown about Kilgrave, but what if Vega had a similar upbringing?
It's all minutia by now ...  Cheesy Cheesy ... I'm sorry, honestly.

I do get what you mean, I just like the evil guys regardless of how they got there, though I like to see how or wonder how as well. But again, I'm just talking myself into a circle now and taking you down with me.
 Grin Grin Cheesy

But regardless ... to me .... you're still Superman while I'm more Batman (in DC anyway), and that's all cool.
 Grin Wink
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2015, 03:16:13 PM »

But regardless ... to me .... you're still Superman while I'm more Batman (in DC anyway), and that's all cool.
 Grin Wink

Does that mean we have to start shooting commercials now?  Cool
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Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2015, 05:19:24 PM »

  Grin Yeah, good looking ones too  Smiley
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Jeff
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« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2016, 05:48:11 PM »

As usual I'm behind everyone else but I finally got to watch the last three episodes yesterday and today.  I'm kind of glad I took so long because the not-so-good episodes are a distant memory and all I'm now impacted by are the greatness of this ending.

I freaking LOVED this show.  I think David Tenant topped his Dr Who performances.  His Kilgrave was unfreaking believable!

I re-read this whole thread and I agree with Jimmy that I would pick and choose who I would recommend it to.  But I do that with all shows.  I'm not going to recommend Flash to my high school buddy who still lives in uber-jock sports world. But to my friends that love the characterization in Walking Dead? Oh yeah, they need to watch this.

I'm still on my high of watching the ending so I'm giving it an 8.5 to 9.  Not quite as good as Daredevil but close.

And I totally geeked out on the last episode when I saw
Night Nurse from Daredevil!

Yeah, that was awesome.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
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