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Author Topic: BATMAN vs SUPERMAN  (Read 12148 times)
Perry
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 09:22:00 PM »

We seem to have two threads going. Another one is HERE

As for my thoughts ... I will say more later, but let's just say I tend to lean more on Krono's thoughts and feelings (from the link above) than on the praise side. This movie had lots of problems and a sprinkle of good things scattered sparsely throughout.

I have many thoughts but one thing I was kinda bothered by, that is not really something that ruined anything for me ...
was that a Super-Bat-Mobile? I mean I know Bruce and his team can make some strong stuff but come on!!!  Grin How many things did that puppy plow through, over, smash onto, explode and bounce off of again? All without one flat?
 Wink

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Jeff
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« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2016, 07:17:35 AM »

Any thoughts on the ending?
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2016, 05:47:07 PM »

Any thoughts on the ending?

The very, end ending or  ... ?  Grin I mean are we talking about
the dirt on the coffin
or something else that led us up to that or  ... maybe something else?  Wink

I do need to post my thoughts on the thing though. Will do that tomorrow  Smiley
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2016, 07:42:15 PM »

Gonna see it Sunday! That is the day. I nearly fear it!  Shocked  Cheesy
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2016, 04:03:11 AM »

Gonna see it Sunday! That is the day. I nearly fear it!  Shocked  Cheesy

Yeah man. I think I am more excited (scared?) to hear what your thoughts are about anyone else. You being such a Superman fan and all. Not that this was ... oh, never-mind. I will just shut-up.
 Cheesy

Having said that, and Jimmy, DO NOT READ BELOW THIS !!!!!

Here a couple things, while I wait for Jeff to come back, that really caught my eye.

EDIT - Seriously don't read unless you've seen the movie or don't care about ANY spoilers. I rant all over the place here. Incoherent, but still spoiler filled.
 Cheesy

To me, there is one thing that shows this team just doesn't get Superman and that is the bathtub scene. Look, I'm all for seeing more of Amy Adams and I am certainly no prude and quite enjoy the the female skin when shown to me, but what in the hell was that scene about? You ask me ... it was about taking a childhood hero and trying to being a more adult edge to him by showing his girlfriend as naked as they could. Now yes, that does sound prudish (after I just got through saying I wasn't  Grin) but that small little scene just proves, along with what happened in the last Superman movie, that these guys are missing out on what makes Superman a Super man.

I am not saying Clark can't get his groove on, hell if anyone deserves some action it is the man that starred in Action ... Comics (sorry for that one), but there seems to be a push, whether by corporate mandate or subconscious production, to take Superman and change him. Or at least his core. Heck, even with making him seem more fun by jumping in the tub with Lois, an action I thought was fun and made me smile, they are showing his spontaneity ... but they are also showing that (and yes this is pushing it a tad for some) he doesn't totally care about his actions. Now I don't mean on a grand scale, of course he "cares", but they are also showing a side of him that is somewhat reckless. But when Lois says Clark, you're gonna flood the apartment" (or something like that) and he 'doesn't care', it hit me that this Clark is ... off. That is all I can say.

Wouldn't it have been more "Super" to have Clark say something like "You're right" and then, while still being on Lois, rise in the air, lifting them both out of the tub. Wouldn't that been a cool shot? Not only would we get "fun Clark" but we would get "caring Clark" as well. Not just a Clark that lets his dad die
 Angry Angry Angry Angry
Also, it would've been a cool shot, I think at least

Okay, yes, for most of you (if not all  Grin) that bathtub scene was a stupid concern of mine, I get it. And that didn't ruin the movie for me or anything, but it just shows, again, to me, how they could still do this, make little changes, to make this stuff work. Everyone is complaining about how "dark" the DCmovieU is and I'm just saying you an be dark and still be good if you get the characters. Superman can be in a dark movie, but he should be the LIGHT in the dark.

Now, as for a couple more "issues" I had  Grin

The huge outcry over a couple of deaths "in the Sand" (when Clark saved Lois) I thought was ridiculous. Really? We, the U.S, are doing that now with all the drone attacks (not turning this into a political debate) why would "the people" give a shit about a few people biting it in this case? Hell, a couple years ago he was involved (directly/indirectly) with the death of thousands and they made a statue of him? Why the outcry for this one thing? Made no sense, but maybe I missed something?

Why did Clark rush out to save the girl on the ledge? He has Super hearing and people die like every minute in Metropolis. Why blast out to save her and not anyone else? Because the cameras were there? Okay, that sounded like something Lex would say
 Cheesy

Speaking of Lex ... I thought he was going to be in this movie? I must have misread that because there was no Lex Luthor in this film, only some crazy guy that acted like he came from Gotham.

Also, and maybe I missed this one so please help me ... How did Zod's ship understand Lex and his commands? Did all Kryptonian ships understand English? I honestly don't know this one so again, please help me here.

Speaking of Lex's commands ... Really? What a craptastic scene that was of him cutting himself to make his fighting machine thing and the ship saying "No, no, no. We can't do that" and him saying you will and you will like it bi'atch!!!!

A lot more things bothered me, but I can only remember a few now ...

Why didn't Bruce tell Clark where his mom was? Just so Bruce could have some fight time? Supers could have flown there, beat the guys, saved Martha and still got back in time to do ... whatever he was doing during that time (See? I forgot)
 Cheesy
I do remember it made me scratch my head at the time however  Tongue

The stupid as hell pigeonholing of the other DCU characters? Oh my god that was bad. Especially Aquaman. The dude just stared at the camera for for waaaaay too long. It should have been just enough for us to see him and then "BAM", Aqua-Trident to the lens, but that damn long ass look made it way to weird. And he was in a hole? Peeping out of a cave hole? HAHAHAHA. And why did the Greatest Detective never hear about this underwater guy? The Flash one was .. eh, okay (more on him later), but I will say I did like what they did with Cyborg. That scene was pretty well done, though just a tad too ... hokey, but pretty good still.

Man, I know I have so much more but can't think of them right now. I guess I could talk about a few of the things that I did enjoy. Yes, this movie was not very good, but it did have some good ... well ... at least cool moments. It was ... Oh, one more bad thing ...

The way Bruce, enraged to the point of fury, goes to spike Supes but the name "Martha" suddenly stops his actions (which I get for a second or two) but then just ... oh, I will not kill you now? Really?

Oh yeah ... I also hated, with the passion of Bruce Wayne towards Superman  Wink, the U'S going all "Screw it, lets nuke 'em". Really? Come on guys, WRITE BETTER!!!!!!!

And stop with the nukes hurting Superman. It is stupid. I don't care what book it is in. Makes no sense at all. Much like me most of the time.  Cheesy

Okay, enough of the gloomy shit for now, here are just a couple of the things I did actually like ... or at least enjoyed a little  Cheesy

The Flash head talking to Bruce. Nice addition and great way to lay out the future movies (better than the awkward character intros seen here ... sorry ... okay, just good stuff ....) Yeah, that was cool. I guess, with his head gear, maybe Cyborg is helping the Flash do this?

Best quote of the movie for me? Martha Kent's reply to Batman
"I'm a friend of your son"
"I figured ... the cape ..."
 Cheesy

I found I actually liked Doomsday (or Zod'day) waaay better than I thought I would. He really looked better here than in the trailer. Moved better, loved the size. Yeah, he was a pleasant surprise indeed.

The fight scenes were cool.

Wonder Woman was amazing !!!!

Really thought Affleck did an amazing job as brooding Bat's. Really well done and I look forward to his recently announced Batman movie.

Amy Adams is great as Lois. Plus she is just about as gorgeous as you can be so it really makes us believe that Clark would fall over his tongue to even talk with her.

Also, was that the same fireplace ... that Lex stood beside, that had the picture above it ... that Gene Hackman had in his Superman movie??? It looked very close ... I think. Maybe not.
 Cheesy

Damn it. This movie was so close to being really good. It had the potential. Just needed another re-write or two and a different director. The pieces were there, they just couldn't put this puzzle together.
 Undecided

6 outta 10
Just slightly better than an average movie, but only because of the context. If I didn't know comics I could easily see myself giving this a 4. Not any one thing majorly wrong with the movie, but lots and lots of little things.
 Embarrassed
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 04:06:45 AM by Perry » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2016, 08:38:11 AM »

Any thoughts on the ending?

The very, end ending or  ... ?  Grin I mean are we talking about
the dirt on the coffin
or something else that led us up to that or  ... maybe something else?  Wink

I do need to post my thoughts on the thing though. Will do that tomorrow  Smiley

I mean
Supes death in general.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Jeff
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« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2016, 09:19:21 AM »


EDIT - Seriously don't read unless you've seen the movie or don't care about ANY spoilers. I rant all over the place here. Incoherent, but still spoiler filled.
 Cheesy

To me, there is one thing that shows this team just doesn't get Superman and that is the bathtub scene. Look, I'm all for seeing more of Amy Adams and I am certainly no prude and quite enjoy the the female skin when shown to me, but what in the hell was that scene about? You ask me ... it was about taking a childhood hero and trying to being a more adult edge to him by showing his girlfriend as naked as they could. Now yes, that does sound prudish (after I just got through saying I wasn't  Grin) but that small little scene just proves, along with what happened in the last Superman movie, that these guys are missing out on what makes Superman a Super man.

I am not saying Clark can't get his groove on, hell if anyone deserves some action it is the man that starred in Action ... Comics (sorry for that one), but there seems to be a push, whether by corporate mandate or subconscious production, to take Superman and change him. Or at least his core. Heck, even with making him seem more fun by jumping in the tub with Lois, an action I thought was fun and made me smile, they are showing his spontaneity ... but they are also showing that (and yes this is pushing it a tad for some) he doesn't totally care about his actions. Now I don't mean on a grand scale, of course he "cares", but they are also showing a side of him that is somewhat reckless. But when Lois says Clark, you're gonna flood the apartment" (or something like that) and he 'doesn't care', it hit me that this Clark is ... off. That is all I can say.

Wouldn't it have been more "Super" to have Clark say something like "You're right" and then, while still being on Lois, rise in the air, lifting them both out of the tub. Wouldn't that been a cool shot? Not only would we get "fun Clark" but we would get "caring Clark" as well. Not just a Clark that lets his dad die
 Angry Angry Angry Angry
Also, it would've been a cool shot, I think at least

Okay, yes, for most of you (if not all  Grin) that bathtub scene was a stupid concern of mine, I get it. And that didn't ruin the movie for me or anything, but it just shows, again, to me, how they could still do this, make little changes, to make this stuff work. Everyone is complaining about how "dark" the DCmovieU is and I'm just saying you an be dark and still be good if you get the characters. Superman can be in a dark movie, but he should be the LIGHT in the dark.

Now, as for a couple more "issues" I had  Grin

The huge outcry over a couple of deaths "in the Sand" (when Clark saved Lois) I thought was ridiculous. Really? We, the U.S, are doing that now with all the drone attacks (not turning this into a political debate) why would "the people" give a shit about a few people biting it in this case? Hell, a couple years ago he was involved (directly/indirectly) with the death of thousands and they made a statue of him? Why the outcry for this one thing? Made no sense, but maybe I missed something?

Why did Clark rush out to save the girl on the ledge? He has Super hearing and people die like every minute in Metropolis. Why blast out to save her and not anyone else? Because the cameras were there? Okay, that sounded like something Lex would say
 Cheesy

Speaking of Lex ... I thought he was going to be in this movie? I must have misread that because there was no Lex Luthor in this film, only some crazy guy that acted like he came from Gotham.

Also, and maybe I missed this one so please help me ... How did Zod's ship understand Lex and his commands? Did all Kryptonian ships understand English? I honestly don't know this one so again, please help me here.

Speaking of Lex's commands ... Really? What a craptastic scene that was of him cutting himself to make his fighting machine thing and the ship saying "No, no, no. We can't do that" and him saying you will and you will like it bi'atch!!!!

A lot more things bothered me, but I can only remember a few now ...

Why didn't Bruce tell Clark where his mom was? Just so Bruce could have some fight time? Supers could have flown there, beat the guys, saved Martha and still got back in time to do ... whatever he was doing during that time (See? I forgot)
 Cheesy
I do remember it made me scratch my head at the time however  Tongue

The stupid as hell pigeonholing of the other DCU characters? Oh my god that was bad. Especially Aquaman. The dude just stared at the camera for for waaaaay too long. It should have been just enough for us to see him and then "BAM", Aqua-Trident to the lens, but that damn long ass look made it way to weird. And he was in a hole? Peeping out of a cave hole? HAHAHAHA. And why did the Greatest Detective never hear about this underwater guy? The Flash one was .. eh, okay (more on him later), but I will say I did like what they did with Cyborg. That scene was pretty well done, though just a tad too ... hokey, but pretty good still.

Man, I know I have so much more but can't think of them right now. I guess I could talk about a few of the things that I did enjoy. Yes, this movie was not very good, but it did have some good ... well ... at least cool moments. It was ... Oh, one more bad thing ...

The way Bruce, enraged to the point of fury, goes to spike Supes but the name "Martha" suddenly stops his actions (which I get for a second or two) but then just ... oh, I will not kill you now? Really?

Oh yeah ... I also hated, with the passion of Bruce Wayne towards Superman  Wink, the U'S going all "Screw it, lets nuke 'em". Really? Come on guys, WRITE BETTER!!!!!!!

And stop with the nukes hurting Superman. It is stupid. I don't care what book it is in. Makes no sense at all. Much like me most of the time.  Cheesy

Okay, enough of the gloomy shit for now, here are just a couple of the things I did actually like ... or at least enjoyed a little  Cheesy

The Flash head talking to Bruce. Nice addition and great way to lay out the future movies (better than the awkward character intros seen here ... sorry ... okay, just good stuff ....) Yeah, that was cool. I guess, with his head gear, maybe Cyborg is helping the Flash do this?

Best quote of the movie for me? Martha Kent's reply to Batman
"I'm a friend of your son"
"I figured ... the cape ..."
 Cheesy

I found I actually liked Doomsday (or Zod'day) waaay better than I thought I would. He really looked better here than in the trailer. Moved better, loved the size. Yeah, he was a pleasant surprise indeed.

The fight scenes were cool.

Wonder Woman was amazing !!!!

Really thought Affleck did an amazing job as brooding Bat's. Really well done and I look forward to his recently announced Batman movie.

Amy Adams is great as Lois. Plus she is just about as gorgeous as you can be so it really makes us believe that Clark would fall over his tongue to even talk with her.

Also, was that the same fireplace ... that Lex stood beside, that had the picture above it ... that Gene Hackman had in his Superman movie??? It looked very close ... I think. Maybe not.
 Cheesy

Damn it. This movie was so close to being really good. It had the potential. Just needed another re-write or two and a different director. The pieces were there, they just couldn't put this puzzle together.
 Undecided

6 outta 10
Just slightly better than an average movie, but only because of the context. If I didn't know comics I could easily see myself giving this a 4. Not any one thing majorly wrong with the movie, but lots and lots of little things.
 Embarrassed

That's a pretty good summary on the things right and wrong with this movie.

Here are some thoughts on some of the things you highlighted...

1.  The Villain.  I had to mentally say this is not Lex Luthor.  It's some other villain using his name.  Once I did that, I liked the villain a lot better.  I thought he was a pretty good villain but they should have given him a different name.  It's just NOT Lex Luthor.  Too bad as well.  His performance as a crazy high tech rich guru was excellent but it will be lost because they tried to say it's Lex.  I also think its funny that most media outlets, that aren't comic experts, think this is Lex Luthor's son.

2.  Bathtub scene.  I'm watching this movie with my 9 year old daughter.  I'm no prude but this made me mad because it distracted from the movie. Instead of paying attention to the scene, I'm too busy covering her eyes because I don't know where this is going to wind up.  I want her to know the boy scout Superman like he is supposed to be.

3.  Lex in the Zod spaceship.  Sounds like I DID pick the right time to go to the bathroom.  Missed all that.   Grin

4.  Ben Affleck.  Dammit.  I so wanted to say "I told you so".  But he actually pulled this off.  Although I enjoyed his scenes as Bruce more than Bats - which also surprised me.

5.  Justice League computer scenes.  The Cyborg scene was cool and clearly leading us to Darkseid.  The others I could have done with out.  Too gratuitous and really had no meaning or necessity IMO.  But I did like the pic of Wonder Woman from, oh what was it, 1916?

6. The public outcry.  Made absolutely no sense.  If something doesn't directly affect them, most of the true public doesn't get all wound up.  In fact, they would probably be glad to know someone that powerful is on "our side".  Your right, you don't have to pick a political side to see how this was dumb.  It's bi-partisan!

7.  Martha.  I actually really like this twist and it was this moment that started turning me around to liking the movie.  I can't believe after all of these decades, it has never occurred to me that their Mom's have the same name.  Sure, it's a little hokey but I expect hokey in my Superman movies.    Grin

8.  Batman anger.  This never really made sense for me.  I had to really suspend disbelief to get on board but I don't think they pulled this off.  The anger seemed forced just so they would fight.  This is clearly a writing issue and makes me wonder how bad the original script was before Affleck had his guy come in a re-write it.

9.  Wonder Woman.  One of the best parts of this movie.  Gadot does the Amazon justice (see how I did that?) and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future.

10.  Death of Superman.  I did not expect them to end with killing off Superman.  That part was really well done and when Hannah's (my daughter) mouth sprang wide open and stuck like that, I knew they had a winner.  Of course, we veterns know what the dirt means and never for a second believe he is going to be dead forever, but it was fun to see.  I even liked Doomsday and I [HATE LOATHE DETEST WISH HE NEVER EXISTED] am not a fan of Doomsday.

What I think hurts the most is that, man - the potential is there.  There are so many things to like and kudo's to the actors for really stepping it up considering what they were given.

But like I said before, the ending was great.  It was a long slow ride to get to that final battle but that battle was (as my daughter, Hannah, said to me) "epic".

Anything that brings me and the tax deduction closer get's an extra point from me.   Smiley

6 out of 10 Bat Brands from me as well.  Not a bad movie but not (sorry Hannah) epic either.
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
Just an old man
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Posts: 12072



« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2016, 03:50:46 PM »

I mean
Supes death in general.

Okay well ...
It was not overly unexpected, really, being as the had Doomsday. Plus with DC's love of dark storytelling it fit right in. Still I guess was somewhat wide-eyed when they did it.
 Cheesy
I was really surprised they kept him in the coffin at the end, I mean sure we got dirt wiggle, but I guess they want the resurrection of Supes to be part of the JLA movie? If so, man, that is gonna be jumbled all to hell.
I think they have too much going on even for two JLA movies right now. The (further) introduction of the League members, Supe's return, Crisis (?), plus a villain or five? I don't know ... I just don't know.

All that said, I was more shocked at Batman's intellectual death. I mean, you just go after Supes like that for that reason? Just felt more "off the cuff" than a well thought out idea. It's not like Supes had much option in the destruction of the city. I mean he did, but ... he also didn't. I like angry Bats, but seemed he let his anger get the best of him here.
 Undecided

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Perry
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2016, 03:54:30 PM »


EDIT - Seriously don't read unless you've seen the movie or don't care about ANY spoilers. I rant all over the place here. Incoherent, but still spoiler filled.
 Cheesy

To me, there is one thing that shows this team just doesn't get Superman and that is the bathtub scene. Look, I'm all for seeing more of Amy Adams and I am certainly no prude and quite enjoy the the female skin when shown to me, but what in the hell was that scene about? You ask me ... it was about taking a childhood hero and trying to being a more adult edge to him by showing his girlfriend as naked as they could. Now yes, that does sound prudish (after I just got through saying I wasn't  Grin) but that small little scene just proves, along with what happened in the last Superman movie, that these guys are missing out on what makes Superman a Super man.

I am not saying Clark can't get his groove on, hell if anyone deserves some action it is the man that starred in Action ... Comics (sorry for that one), but there seems to be a push, whether by corporate mandate or subconscious production, to take Superman and change him. Or at least his core. Heck, even with making him seem more fun by jumping in the tub with Lois, an action I thought was fun and made me smile, they are showing his spontaneity ... but they are also showing that (and yes this is pushing it a tad for some) he doesn't totally care about his actions. Now I don't mean on a grand scale, of course he "cares", but they are also showing a side of him that is somewhat reckless. But when Lois says Clark, you're gonna flood the apartment" (or something like that) and he 'doesn't care', it hit me that this Clark is ... off. That is all I can say.

Wouldn't it have been more "Super" to have Clark say something like "You're right" and then, while still being on Lois, rise in the air, lifting them both out of the tub. Wouldn't that been a cool shot? Not only would we get "fun Clark" but we would get "caring Clark" as well. Not just a Clark that lets his dad die
 Angry Angry Angry Angry
Also, it would've been a cool shot, I think at least

Okay, yes, for most of you (if not all  Grin) that bathtub scene was a stupid concern of mine, I get it. And that didn't ruin the movie for me or anything, but it just shows, again, to me, how they could still do this, make little changes, to make this stuff work. Everyone is complaining about how "dark" the DCmovieU is and I'm just saying you an be dark and still be good if you get the characters. Superman can be in a dark movie, but he should be the LIGHT in the dark.

Now, as for a couple more "issues" I had  Grin

The huge outcry over a couple of deaths "in the Sand" (when Clark saved Lois) I thought was ridiculous. Really? We, the U.S, are doing that now with all the drone attacks (not turning this into a political debate) why would "the people" give a shit about a few people biting it in this case? Hell, a couple years ago he was involved (directly/indirectly) with the death of thousands and they made a statue of him? Why the outcry for this one thing? Made no sense, but maybe I missed something?

Why did Clark rush out to save the girl on the ledge? He has Super hearing and people die like every minute in Metropolis. Why blast out to save her and not anyone else? Because the cameras were there? Okay, that sounded like something Lex would say
 Cheesy

Speaking of Lex ... I thought he was going to be in this movie? I must have misread that because there was no Lex Luthor in this film, only some crazy guy that acted like he came from Gotham.

Also, and maybe I missed this one so please help me ... How did Zod's ship understand Lex and his commands? Did all Kryptonian ships understand English? I honestly don't know this one so again, please help me here.

Speaking of Lex's commands ... Really? What a craptastic scene that was of him cutting himself to make his fighting machine thing and the ship saying "No, no, no. We can't do that" and him saying you will and you will like it bi'atch!!!!

A lot more things bothered me, but I can only remember a few now ...

Why didn't Bruce tell Clark where his mom was? Just so Bruce could have some fight time? Supers could have flown there, beat the guys, saved Martha and still got back in time to do ... whatever he was doing during that time (See? I forgot)
 Cheesy
I do remember it made me scratch my head at the time however  Tongue

The stupid as hell pigeonholing of the other DCU characters? Oh my god that was bad. Especially Aquaman. The dude just stared at the camera for for waaaaay too long. It should have been just enough for us to see him and then "BAM", Aqua-Trident to the lens, but that damn long ass look made it way to weird. And he was in a hole? Peeping out of a cave hole? HAHAHAHA. And why did the Greatest Detective never hear about this underwater guy? The Flash one was .. eh, okay (more on him later), but I will say I did like what they did with Cyborg. That scene was pretty well done, though just a tad too ... hokey, but pretty good still.

Man, I know I have so much more but can't think of them right now. I guess I could talk about a few of the things that I did enjoy. Yes, this movie was not very good, but it did have some good ... well ... at least cool moments. It was ... Oh, one more bad thing ...

The way Bruce, enraged to the point of fury, goes to spike Supes but the name "Martha" suddenly stops his actions (which I get for a second or two) but then just ... oh, I will not kill you now? Really?

Oh yeah ... I also hated, with the passion of Bruce Wayne towards Superman  Wink, the U'S going all "Screw it, lets nuke 'em". Really? Come on guys, WRITE BETTER!!!!!!!

And stop with the nukes hurting Superman. It is stupid. I don't care what book it is in. Makes no sense at all. Much like me most of the time.  Cheesy

Okay, enough of the gloomy shit for now, here are just a couple of the things I did actually like ... or at least enjoyed a little  Cheesy

The Flash head talking to Bruce. Nice addition and great way to lay out the future movies (better than the awkward character intros seen here ... sorry ... okay, just good stuff ....) Yeah, that was cool. I guess, with his head gear, maybe Cyborg is helping the Flash do this?

Best quote of the movie for me? Martha Kent's reply to Batman
"I'm a friend of your son"
"I figured ... the cape ..."
 Cheesy

I found I actually liked Doomsday (or Zod'day) waaay better than I thought I would. He really looked better here than in the trailer. Moved better, loved the size. Yeah, he was a pleasant surprise indeed.

The fight scenes were cool.

Wonder Woman was amazing !!!!

Really thought Affleck did an amazing job as brooding Bat's. Really well done and I look forward to his recently announced Batman movie.

Amy Adams is great as Lois. Plus she is just about as gorgeous as you can be so it really makes us believe that Clark would fall over his tongue to even talk with her.

Also, was that the same fireplace ... that Lex stood beside, that had the picture above it ... that Gene Hackman had in his Superman movie??? It looked very close ... I think. Maybe not.
 Cheesy

Damn it. This movie was so close to being really good. It had the potential. Just needed another re-write or two and a different director. The pieces were there, they just couldn't put this puzzle together.
 Undecided

6 outta 10
Just slightly better than an average movie, but only because of the context. If I didn't know comics I could easily see myself giving this a 4. Not any one thing majorly wrong with the movie, but lots and lots of little things.
 Embarrassed

That's a pretty good summary on the things right and wrong with this movie.

Here are some thoughts on some of the things you highlighted...

1.  The Villain.  I had to mentally say this is not Lex Luthor.  It's some other villain using his name.  Once I did that, I liked the villain a lot better.  I thought he was a pretty good villain but they should have given him a different name.  It's just NOT Lex Luthor.  Too bad as well.  His performance as a crazy high tech rich guru was excellent but it will be lost because they tried to say it's Lex.  I also think its funny that most media outlets, that aren't comic experts, think this is Lex Luthor's son.

2.  Bathtub scene.  I'm watching this movie with my 9 year old daughter.  I'm no prude but this made me mad because it distracted from the movie. Instead of paying attention to the scene, I'm too busy covering her eyes because I don't know where this is going to wind up.  I want her to know the boy scout Superman like he is supposed to be.

3.  Lex in the Zod spaceship.  Sounds like I DID pick the right time to go to the bathroom.  Missed all that.   Grin

4.  Ben Affleck.  Dammit.  I so wanted to say "I told you so".  But he actually pulled this off.  Although I enjoyed his scenes as Bruce more than Bats - which also surprised me.

5.  Justice League computer scenes.  The Cyborg scene was cool and clearly leading us to Darkseid.  The others I could have done with out.  Too gratuitous and really had no meaning or necessity IMO.  But I did like the pic of Wonder Woman from, oh what was it, 1916?

6. The public outcry.  Made absolutely no sense.  If something doesn't directly affect them, most of the true public doesn't get all wound up.  In fact, they would probably be glad to know someone that powerful is on "our side".  Your right, you don't have to pick a political side to see how this was dumb.  It's bi-partisan!

7.  Martha.  I actually really like this twist and it was this moment that started turning me around to liking the movie.  I can't believe after all of these decades, it has never occurred to me that their Mom's have the same name.  Sure, it's a little hokey but I expect hokey in my Superman movies.    Grin

8.  Batman anger.  This never really made sense for me.  I had to really suspend disbelief to get on board but I don't think they pulled this off.  The anger seemed forced just so they would fight.  This is clearly a writing issue and makes me wonder how bad the original script was before Affleck had his guy come in a re-write it.

9.  Wonder Woman.  One of the best parts of this movie.  Gadot does the Amazon justice (see how I did that?) and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future.

10.  Death of Superman.  I did not expect them to end with killing off Superman.  That part was really well done and when Hannah's (my daughter) mouth sprang wide open and stuck like that, I knew they had a winner.  Of course, we veterns know what the dirt means and never for a second believe he is going to be dead forever, but it was fun to see.  I even liked Doomsday and I [HATE LOATHE DETEST WISH HE NEVER EXISTED] am not a fan of Doomsday.

What I think hurts the most is that, man - the potential is there.  There are so many things to like and kudo's to the actors for really stepping it up considering what they were given.

But like I said before, the ending was great.  It was a long slow ride to get to that final battle but that battle was (as my daughter, Hannah, said to me) "epic".

Anything that brings me and the tax deduction closer get's an extra point from me.   Smiley

6 out of 10 Bat Brands from me as well.  Not a bad movie but not (sorry Hannah) epic either.

Darn it.
Didn't see this post until I posted my first response to you, as this is the first post on another page  Cheesy And now I have to go eat ...
Okay, I will get back to this one too ... a little later.
 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2016, 02:54:51 PM »

I have seen this. I will finish my master's thesis of a review later.  Cool
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« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2016, 07:14:49 AM »

That's a pretty good summary on the things right and wrong with this movie.

Here are some thoughts on some of the things you highlighted...

1.  The Villain.  I had to mentally say this is not Lex Luthor.  It's some other villain using his name.  Once I did that, I liked the villain a lot better.  I thought he was a pretty good villain but they should have given him a different name.  It's just NOT Lex Luthor.  Too bad as well.  His performance as a crazy high tech rich guru was excellent but it will be lost because they tried to say it's Lex.  I also think its funny that most media outlets, that aren't comic experts, think this is Lex Luthor's son.

He did a great job at
being a creepy little shit, but I never think I got a "creepy" vibe of Lex when I read him. The acting was well done, but yeah, we can (and most everyone will) agree that this portrayal was not Lex. He came off as more a combination Mad Hater/Toyman/Riddler than Lex. That falls on the director.

2.  Bathtub scene.  I'm watching this movie with my 9 year old daughter.  I'm no prude but this made me mad because it distracted from the movie. Instead of paying attention to the scene, I'm too busy covering her eyes because I don't know where this is going to wind up.  I want her to know the boy scout Superman like he is supposed to be.

Right? I was too busy seeing how far they would go with that camera. Haha

3.  Lex in the Zod spaceship.  Sounds like I DID pick the right time to go to the bathroom.  Missed all that.   Grin

Ha

4.  Ben Affleck.  Dammit.  I so wanted to say "I told you so".  But he actually pulled this off.  Although I enjoyed his scenes as Bruce more than Bats - which also surprised me.

Yeah....
I was really impressed with him. He only had to show one emotion, anger  Cheesy, but he did it well

5.  Justice League computer scenes.  The Cyborg scene was cool and clearly leading us to Darkseid.  The others I could have done with out.  Too gratuitous and really had no meaning or necessity IMO.  But I did like the pic of Wonder Woman from, oh what was it, 1916?

Around that time ....
Certainly WWI era from the looks of it. Wonder if she helped during WWII as well?

6. The public outcry.  Made absolutely no sense.  If something doesn't directly affect them, most of the true public doesn't get all wound up.  In fact, they would probably be glad to know someone that powerful is on "our side".  Your right, you don't have to pick a political side to see how this was dumb.  It's bi-partisan!

Crazy it is. Crazy

7.  Martha.  I actually really like this twist and it was this moment that started turning me around to liking the movie.  I can't believe after all of these decades, it has never occurred to me that their Mom's have the same name.  Sure, it's a little hokey but I expect hokey in my Superman movies.    Grin

Shamefully I have to admit to the same lack of connection. Never even thought about the similarity.  Cheesy Cheesy

8.  Batman anger.  This never really made sense for me.  I had to really suspend disbelief to get on board but I don't think they pulled this off.  The anger seemed forced just so they would fight.  This is clearly a writing issue and makes me wonder how bad the original script was before Affleck had his guy come in a re-write it.

Yeah, I could see being concerned and cautious and of course mad at the events. But that fury, that intensity of anger ... for that situation ... ??  

9.  Wonder Woman.  One of the best parts of this movie.  Gadot does the Amazon justice (see how I did that?) and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future.

Amen brotha

10.  Death of Superman.  I did not expect them to end with killing off Superman.  That part was really well done and when Hannah's (my daughter) mouth sprang wide open and stuck like that, I knew they had a winner.  Of course, we veterns know what the dirt means and never for a second believe he is going to be dead forever, but it was fun to see.  I even liked Doomsday and I [HATE LOATHE DETEST WISH HE NEVER EXISTED] am not a fan of Doomsday.

Me neither!!!! but yes, they did pretty good with him. At least better than I had thought they would. Waaaaay better  Smiley

What I think hurts the most is that, man - the potential is there.  There are so many things to like and kudo's to the actors for really stepping it up considering what they were given.

Oh I agree with that. I think that is what makes me so mad. the "What could have been" factor

]But like I said before, the ending was great.  It was a long slow ride to get to that final battle but that battle was (as my daughter, Hannah, said to me) "epic".

So cool she enjoyed it!!!  No matter what we may think, if it gets her enjoying more and more of the 'ole comic stuff ... I'm all for it!!!
Cool Cool

I have seen this. I will finish my master's thesis of a review later.  Cool



 Wink Grin
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 07:22:12 AM by Perry » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2016, 05:57:56 PM »

For my review....

Superman wasn’t Superman. Superman NEVER speaks for himself. Go back and look and see what he says-he SAYS NOTHING.  Reeve’s says “Truth, Justice, and the American way.” Corny, but it held. Captain America got to be that way, and we praise that character in those movies. Why can’t they do that with Supes? Instead, he seems to channel this millennial ascribed aspect of being lost and confused, without any sense of what they should be doing. At no point does Superman make a significant point with dialogue. When he suddenly confronts Batman, he threatens with lame bluster with “the bat is dead. Stay gone!” -based off what, exactly is this referring to? Or when they meet to fight, Supes wishes to get Batman to help him...and then throws him 50 feet? What the hell. What slipshod, terrible, confusing characterization.

Batman was great-got the fight I always wanted.Him against all those thugs is EXACTLY how I’ve always wanted to see him move and fight. So cool!! Affleck did just fine, really great even, and I had all the confidence he would. And I really dig the more comic book costume of this movie over all 3 Nolan movies. I WANT to see a comic book suit! Make it translate!!

Wonder Woman was AMAZING. The more of her to see the better! Glad to see she was an amazing spot in the movie.

Snyder lifts/steals some amazing visuals of comics’ past…but without the nuance or meaning to make it actually stand on its own. (Coming out of the wall with the huge machine gun, EVERYTHING about the fight between Bat & Supes). In trying to make this movie signficant, he directly lifted from great moments of significance...but putting pretty visuals next to each other for an entire movie doesn’t make an amazing movie either.

I’m honestly fine with Lex. It’s a movie version of a character; that didn’t quite bother me. So he’s got a bit more of  screw loose-but up on the helipad, that was Lex. Down in the laboratory, that was Lex. This interpretation didn’t bother me as it did others. Which is weird, cuz Jesse Eisenberg just played him weird. But I kinda liked it. Go figure (for peoples’ tastes; mine included!)

Movie lives in allegory. We get it; Jesus motifs. A savior. Get over it. Many writers have used this to far greater affect WITHOUT hammering it blatantly into our faces or outright saying. Subtlety, sir. Try it some time. Actually, just try to tell a story.

Not so much as story, as it was cliff notes. We were always told, but never shown how things really develop. Why would the world approve of him? Or hate him? Why does public scrutiny turn so fast? If his attack to save Lois lead to more deaths (which I think it did, but the movie did a really poor job of that), WHY would this U.S. care? A foreign country in a pretend Middle East involving news-footage “typical” bad guy Arabs/Muslims? Show me an American citizen actually concerned about that now.

4 fucking dream sequences? Oh shut up about it already.

The transition of Bat v Supes of enemies to fighting allies was clumsy and heavy handed. Oh, I l thought Affleck did a great job of confused rage “HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT NAME?!!” But the about face of it was too quick. Perhaps if the dying Superman actually begged, like, really begged for the life of another, I would have bought it. Instead, it looks like a 12 year playing at theater when he just yells ‘save Martha!’ and then that’s about it.

Kryptonian ship speaks in English? Right away? It’s A.I. is quite impressive-and also quite stupid to simply be spun around by Lex’s argument of “where’s that Kryptonian council now?”

The impact of Supes death was…uneventful. It happened. Unlike in the comics, where Supes has been shown to be the world’s hero, loved by all-I don’t know what this cinema world feels. Whereas the world watched on to see Supes battle to the death in the comics, against an unstoppable monster that even SUPERMAN seemed unable to truly defeat over a months time of publishing, the movie’s scene was a quick fight at the harbor. A lot of disaster porn destruction (with movie news reporter continually saying that “the business park is empty this time of night” and “stryker’s island is completely abandoned” so they can avoid the stigma of making Supes an inadvertent killer again). But the movie death was not witnessed by a world, to have lived the horror of what it might mean if Doomsday kept going. The fight was 30 minutes-and mostly alone. If anything it should make everyone terrified once again of Kryptonians and aliens coming to kill them! And what was with the continual super EMP lightning blast from Doomsday when he adapted to pain? LAME. So, the about turn and honoring him when he was dead was not executed in a believable way.

A mashed together movie of lots of good ideas, stolen ideas, and bad ideas fed through a meat grinder into a series of bland sausage links. SHOULD have been better. COULD have been better. 2 movies involving the new Superman where his symbol is continually stressed to mean ‘hope’ fails to ever deliver that feeling to an audience even once. I honestly have no hope for the future Justice League movie. The other DC movies coming out (Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman) I do wish to see as it does not have Zach Snyder at the helm. Is there a chance other movies that don’t have his fingerprints can be very good? Sure, without a doubt. We got to see a long look at Wonder Woman, and quick shots of Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman. So, maybe they’ll be something. Or, if things continue to be poor at the box office (well, maybe not poor, but not Avengers numbers!!), then perhaps Warner Bros. will quickly again scrap these plans and wait a bit before rebooting everything again.

Just disappointed. It’s not the movie I wanted. To rip from the Dark Knight., I’ll flip the line to say that this is not the hero we deserve, but it’s the one we got. There is no sunshine, no mirth, no good times in a DC cinematic universe. They have it confused , the movie side of things, to say that the DC movies are more “real world” or better drama than the Marvel movies. Being grounded, or more “real” and serious with the drama doesn’t mean that it has to be joyless, mirthless and depressing. Nothing about this movie makes me say “let’s take a kid to see this!”

Because it’s plain to me that they don’t know Superman. This is not my hero. This is not the best hero. This is not our greatest hero.

****

And I feel like doing this prediction: There will be time travel to help prevent Superman from dying. Oh, he’s going to rise from the death (because, you know-JESUS that he is will be stressed in the movies.) But, Clark Kent will still be dead. The League will gather. And something will happen to cause the League to assemble earlier in time-at the time of Doomsday fighting the Trinity! Then, they all can kill Doomsday, and Superman/Clark never has to die! My prediction.




I've been so tired, that writing this seems really disjointed or badly done.
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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2016, 09:48:52 AM »

Everyone and I mean everyone that has seen Bat vs Supes needs to take 40 minutes out of their day and listen (or DL it and listen as you go) to THIS podcast discussion from two ... Superman fans(?). One of which knows movie structure very well (And thought Man of Steel wasn't bad, though he understands those that differ in opinion). And what about Snyder's next film he wants to make? How does that potentially tie-in?

Things like  (movie spoiler) ....
if you want to make Supes Death mean something, you don't almost kill him before you kill him  Cheesy

Serious, listen. Good stuff. I hope DC listens.
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« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2016, 08:01:51 AM »

Everyone and I mean everyone that has seen Bat vs Supes needs to take 40 minutes out of their day and listen (or DL it and listen as you go) to THIS podcast discussion from two ... Superman fans(?). One of which knows movie structure very well (And thought Man of Steel wasn't bad, though he understands those that differ in opinion). And what about Snyder's next film he wants to make? How does that potentially tie-in?

Things like  (movie spoiler) ....
if you want to make Supes Death mean something, you don't almost kill him before you kill him  Cheesy

Serious, listen. Good stuff. I hope DC listens.

Seriously, it was like listening to my interior thoughts given word. I listened to this up with the baby last night, so I had time to finish it.

But yeah; it was like I was in that room with the podcasters whispering in their ears. There's more, so much more I could have written up than I did, but yeah, I agree.

Also, this podcast influenced me to NOT see the movie again on Sunday. Snyder has always just been a visual -BOOM- director with nothing but fluff around it. That barely makes sense. This man needs to not be in charge of any of this going forward.

But I won't be seeing it again in theaters. Having my disappointments laid open further by other's speaking with a voice that should be my own has made that clear. This movie is far poorer than I gave it at first glance. Because I want it to be better.

But, like I've said elsewheres, I kept rewatching Superman The Movie as SyFy replayed it over a week. And I loved it. Sure, some of that is the nostalgic angle of being a child who loves Superman. Some of that is from reading Reeve's autobiography 'Still Me' and knowing how he approached the character. That strength is shown through gentleness. That power is shown through politenss. And I know all the beats of that movie, and why they are there, and how its all about showing the greatness of Superman that reaches to everyone on the planet.

Snyder's work can just go in the garbage.

#SUPERfrustrated

 Embarrassed
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« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2016, 09:07:45 AM »

Also, delving into reading that Zach Snyder is looking to adapt 'The Fountainhead' by Ayn Rand, and he himself seems to be a believer of such things only increases my ire and disgust that much further.
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