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Author Topic: Star Wars  (Read 7050 times)
Perry
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« on: July 21, 2014, 08:15:36 AM »

Okay, with boh Marvel taking over the Star Wars property and seeing the omni being solicited in next months previews, I really started thinking about the old question "where do you rank the films"

Now yes, Lucas ruined ... okay, did damage to "His creation" with the prequels (love how us fans deem how well the creator of something handles his creation  Grin), but even the worst of those has some (albeit minuscule) good stuff in them.

My main reason for doing this is I am having trouble with #3 and #4 on my rankings. The first and last two are easy enough for me, but its those middle spots in which I am struggling. Essentially Return or Revenge. Who belongs in that 3rd spot? Now on the surface it may look easy. I mean when Lucas brought us the prequels he brought a load of crap and sometimes those three shovelfuls get thrown in the same compost pile, but ... and maybe it is just me not truly remembering the movie ... was Revenge of the Sith really THAT bad?

Sure Revenge had an over abundance of bad digital effects, pretty weak dialog and of course, the dreaded Chistensen acting, but let's not forget that Return of the Jedi had Ewoks  Wink Of course it also suffers more than any other of the first three by having been handled too heavily by Lucas and his additional effects. Adding back ground in the windows of cloud city was a fantastic choice, all that damn music and singing ... no.

And that is where Revenge shines. Those effects. Again, yes they were overly used and there were some bad scenes (the fake looking fight with Anikin and Obiwan for example), but when they hit (space ship battle) they were a wonder to behold. Plus, it's the origin of Darth Vader,  damn it!

Yet, still, even with the damn Ewoks (yes, I hate them just as much as Jar-Jar) Return is better "story-wise" and I giess that has to win.

So I suppose, I still stick with -

1) Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back
2) Episode IV - A New Hope
3) Episode VI - Return of the Jedi
4) Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
5) Episode I - The Phantom Menace
6) Episode II - The Horrible Hill Roll ... Ummm ... Attack of the Clones

You?

Also, speaking of the disastrous scene in Attack where Anikin and Padmè roll down that damn hill, laughing and giggling ... ARRR, what are your favorite and least favorite parts of each movie? Gonna think on that for a few myself.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 08:21:16 AM by Perry » Logged
Jimmy T
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 11:33:04 AM »

Yeah, if there is anything I am more anal about than Star Wars and shitty minded authors and books...

...it's Star Wars.

For me!

1. Return of the Jedi: Sorry Perry, this story is all about Luke and a Jedi rising, saving Vader, and the most amazing fight/flight scene over Endor that still puts many, if not most, sci fi and action movies to shame. Ewoks? Whatever, that doesn't even phase me. But Luke's ascendance, the amazing movement of Vader's character throughout the film, one AMAZING Emperor (c'mon just remember that look he gives Luke, once Luke says "I'm a Jedi, like my father before me." IT's a priceless look! lol This has been, and always will be, my favorite Star Wars movie.

2. Empire: Anything need to be said? Wink

3. ANH: Ah, duh again.

4. Revenge of the Sith. For me, there was plenty in this movie that if another director or screenwriter could have just tweaked just a bit, it would have been great. The Council's shitty manipulation of Anakin. The Jedi hubris. The gleeful evil of the Emperor. Obi-wan's tortured anger at his apprentice. Hell, Hayden even turned in some good scenes, but he seemed like he had to be leashed to follow whatever Vader myth they wanted him to fulfill. (He did 'My Life as a House' between these movies, and showed he COULD act there). An okay lightsaber duel. Shitty Portman acting (she was atrocius through and through this trilogy).

5. Empty.

6. Empty.

7. Phantom & Attack: Seriously, these movies are so gawd-damned awful, I can't watch them. Best from them? Darth Maul & subsequent duel. The GREATEST LIGHTSABER FIGHTING OF THEM ALL. Amazing. Obi-wan & Jango fight. Great fight of a Jedi & non-Jedi. That Fett should have had legions of fans, not that turd that stood around then fell into a hole in 'Return.' Some of the visuals in the space fight were cool-the pure expanse of it-but that fact that it was all-poorly-rendered in CGI in many places, and that includes Clone troopers, ruins it for me.

And yes, that hill roll was AWFUL, as well as the jump down to the beast's back in the coliseum, and gives the quick kiss to her honey. ARGH AWFUL.

You want favorite & least favorite of all movies? I could write a doctorate thesis on this stuff.
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 02:21:55 PM »

1. Return of the Jedi: Sorry Perry ...

No apologies. This is, like most, one of those things based solely on opinion  Cool

And you opinion is certainly just as valid, if not more, than most.  Smiley (and yes, I know you didn't mean "sorry" quite like that)  Wink

I do have to ask, however, was this the first Star Wars movie you saw in person, at the theater, when it opened? I only ask because I have found throughout my LCS discussions, that the first movie that you saw of the original trilogy, has a higher "enjoyment rate" usually for fans. Most of the younger crowd (well 20 somethings) enjoy the hell out of Return. Now that rule of thumb doesn't always "hold water", but sometimes it is true. Of course it is not true for me, as I was an original Star Wars: A New Hope theater kid at the bright old age of 11 and I still prefer Emipre, but that first movie/theater does have some form of impact regardless. So just wondering if that was your first big screen one.

(Sill remember how my Grandmother, who took me, held my hand when that damn Star Destroyer flew into frame, and held it ever so firmer as it kept going. HAHA. As hard as it to believe, I think she was more fascinated and in awe than I was. Damn I love that memory.)

That said, the reason I had struggled so much with Return vs Revenge had a lot to do with how damn easily a character I just knew was gonna be a major threat in Return of the Jedi movie, was so easily taken out of the picture. (Fett) And in such a lucky (unlucky), happenstance manner. Totally pissed me off when I saw that and then became even madder when they used the damn Wilhelm scream, not even allowing our "most dangerous Bounty Hunter" to have his own vocal shout. They used the damn stock scream found in countless movies. Then, adding insult to injury and fire to my ire, they have the damn beast that ate him burp? HEY, YOU KILLED BOBA!! YOU BASTARDS!!! Death in almost the worst way possible, for a character I was looking to hate for years to come.

 Angry Angry Angry


You want favorite & least favorite of all movies? I could write a doctorate thesis on this stuff.

 Grin
Yes, that is what I was going for. Still don't have mine yet (other than "Hill Roll" being the ... well, maybe. Need to think on it more and watch the movies again to refresh myself on certain ideas/thoughts that I think I have.
 Wink

EDIT -

Screw it. Just want to do a first pass and see what I can recall from memory. My shitty, so shitty memory  Cheesy Please note that making a list of the best (or the worst for that matter) is so damn hard because there are TONS of really cool moments that I am sure we all love. But as of this minute ...
 Wink

NEW HOPE
`Best - Seeing Vader come through that door and then hearing his voice for the first time. But I don't know, that memory of the Star Destroyer is pretty damn strong and of course, the classic "Don't get cocky"
`Worst - Have to think

EMPIRE
`Best - First time I saw those AT-AT's come into focus. So damn cool and so damn impractical  Cheesy They should have called them AT-EWTATTTO - "All Terrain except where there are things to trip over". I will change this "best" to "This is no cave", "I am your father" or Yoda smacking the hell out of R2 any second now.
`Worst - Have to think

RETURN
`Best - More time
`Worst - Boba Fett's demise. Easily one of the most infuriating things I have ever seen in a movie. Even the sucky ass Ewoks fall in second to that crap. (In the Lucas "I can't stop retouching my movies" edition, having young Anikin be in the ghostly shot was pretty fucking bad)

The other films I need more time as well.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 02:48:01 PM by Perry » Logged
Jimmy T
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 03:16:38 PM »

I didn't see Empire in theaters, but I saw it before Return. Return was seen in theaters.

Even with that, I have no problem saying that Empire may in fact be the better movie (although, it does get off with being a middle part of the story; it's a great movie, leaves ya wanting more, it doesn't have to finish anything, it has the big reveal, so, it's like it has a leg up just because of that).

But personally, yeah, Return is great simply because of the Luke & Vader story, no doubt.

Yeah, Ewoks were never my favorite.

But the opening with Jabba's palace, Leia slave-bikini, Luke taking on the Jabba's barge by himself (I was never a Boba fan, so I laughed at his silly demise).

***

A New Hope

BEST: Trash compactor scene. To me, the characters, the actors, the editing of tense, 'how do our heroes get of this?', the humor, all rolled up EXCELLENTLY in this scene. Hell, maybe they weren't even acting. They were wet, frustrated, scared, at the end of their last nerve, they were all so good together right there, to me, alot of the pretending we are doing some stupid science fiction movie you can see in other scenes was absolutely absent from this, and I loved it. (This was more a thematic analysis. The BEST scene may honestly be the first appearance of the Executor in the first 2 minutes and Vader's entrance).

WORST: Probably the first 15 minutes of watching the droids. More on this theme to follow. (Also, although I still don't "count" it, is the insertion of digital Jabba. Bah. Unnecessary change.)

Empire

BEST: Pacing of the frantic flight from Bespin, lots of laser pistol fire, danger, things are racheted up so high!~juxtaposed against the deep, slow mood of Luke hiding and moving about, wondering where Vader is, and how he would try to stay alive. And, THE REVEAL!!

WORST: No worst. Wink

Return:

BEST: Just after Vader states, "If you will not turn to the dark side...then perhaps..SHE will..." and Luke just lets out "NOOOOO!" (and to me, fully embraces the dark side and lets loose on Vader). The music changes, takes on a frenetic, steroid-version of the Jedi music, and it all comes down to the final moments when Vader is beaten, his hand removed, completely at his mercy~ AND-and Luke pulls back, takes a shuddering breath, sees his father, not his enemy, and stands away. Luke cannot be beaten. The dark side has no hold on him. The Emperor will not prevail. LOVE that moment. ALWAYS gives me goosebumps

WORST: Ewoks. Yeah, duh, unnecessary, felt weak, and were only used because Lucas couldn't find enough people to be wookies. So did begin his 30 year love affair with Warwick Davis and little people. (In looking at remastered versions-HAYDEN AS THE JEDI GHOST NO. NO. NONONONONO. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. NO.)

Phanton Menace:

BEST: That trailer. The best movie trailer in existence. And Darth Maul, and lightsaber (a dual lightsaber!) dueling to end all fights.

WORST: The fact that Lucas made this movie like this. Yes, you can go Jar-Jar, Jake Lloyd, Gungans, Korean Neimodians, video game pod race, Boss Nass, MIDI-CHLORIANS, etc etc, but the worst to me is giving Darth Vader a nickname of ANI. "ann-nee" ARGH. Also, the fact that evryone would die, each movie, unless R2 fixes something to save all the dumb humans. *sighs*

Attack

BEST: As I said, Obi-wan/Jango. Great. Seeing the living Coruscant, being a part of it, versus a visitor as the first movie was. Also, a raging Anakin in the sandpeoples' tents. I laughed so hard! (for all the wrong reasons).

WORST: Everything between Padme/Anakin ever. The hill roll! The barebacked jump & kiss! The entire f'ing time with the droids in the factory! I hate C3PIO and R2! ohmigod Lucas make it stop!!! Yoda & Dooku fight. (*also, see name 'Dooku'). I can't believe Lucas ever saw his feet considering how stilted this whole damn movie was. Ugh. Waaaay worse than I remembered, once I saw it again over this year's May the Fourth

Revenge:

BEST: First act was pretty solid. I won't lie, highly enjoyed it all (even with R2 all around). Then, Padme came into the scene. Ugh.

WORST: Poor acting, shoddy dialogue, poor, poor characterization, and plot. Ewan McGregor was sooo wasted throughout these movies. He really did try to shine at so many points, but not in this trilogy.

I invite discussion. Cheesy

Do I worry about what these next movies could do to "my" movies? Nope, doesn't matter. Because, no matter what, "my" movies are there. I really don't care that the prequel are there, they don't factor into how the actual movies make me feel, or wonder, or dream. Just like if the next ones are poor, it won't change how I'm able to watch the other ones.

Not. one. bit.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 03:18:55 PM by Jimmy T » Logged

Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 07:45:38 PM »

it's too late for me to really bring my scope into this....but i will give you this to tide you over....


the ranking:

1)empire strikes back.  no doubt.
2)return of the jedi
3)a new hope
4)revenge of the sith
5 and 6 tied)phantom menace and attack of the clones.


i can't believe you have all missed the absolute BEST thing about TESB.  this is the film where Han really shows who he is.  he is a bad ass with a big heart.  the BEST thing about TESB is....."i love you."  "I know."  OMG...soooo smooth and badassed.  Han became my hero for all time at the tender age of 7.

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jedicow
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 07:46:54 PM »

i will return for more of this hopefully tomorrow.  i have to pick up some power converters from toshi station.
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Perry
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 06:08:36 AM »

it's too late for me to really bring my scope into this....

Never !!! Never too late

5 and 6 tied)phantom menace and attack of the clones.
7. Phantom & Attack:

Okay slackers  Cheesy Stop pussy-footing it and make a decision. Which one is the greater evil. Non of this they both are equally vile to me.
 Grin

i can't believe you have all missed the absolute BEST thing about TESB.  this is the film where Han really shows who he is.  he is a bad ass with a big heart.  the BEST thing about TESB is....."i love you."  "I know."  OMG...soooo smooth and badassed.  Han became my hero for all time at the tender age of 7.

Oh for sure, best ad-lib ever. Great moment

And seven? Awww, you knew what would work with the ladies even then. If you were an 80's hip-hop'er you could have been LLCoolJC.  Wink Smiley

I didn't see Empire in theaters, but I saw it before Return. Return was seen in theaters.

Hmmm, I wonder if that would count towards our LCS nonscientific and unfunded Star Wars theater research.
 Grin

But personally, yeah, Return is great simply because of the Luke & Vader story, no doubt.

Totally understandable

(I was never a Boba fan, so I laughed at his silly demise).



I should expect such a thing from a DC lover. How dare you? BLASPHEMER
Damn You, good sir.
 Angry


 Grin

Trying not to read too much or yours Jimmy, as I do want to try to find my own without too much influence and then I shall return, but ...


A New Hope

BEST: Trash compactor scene

Yep, fantastic in all aspect.
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Jimmy T
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 07:26:31 AM »

Very well. I choose THE PHANTOM MENACE as the worst. Only because Attack has more lightsaber fighting. And child actors are awful.  Cool
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Jimmy T since 2001
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 07:27:30 AM »

and I simply never saw any real appeal in Boba Fett. He didn't do anything except say, what, 2 lines in Empire? Just didn't do anything for this kid. That, and he didn't have an awesome LAZERSWORD!!!! Wink
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Jimmy T since 2001
Perry
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 11:02:31 AM »

and I simply never saw any real appeal in Boba Fett. He didn't do anything except say, what, 2 lines in Empire?


I know, that is what made his demise in the next film so frustrating. You have this character that everyone was talking about at the end of Empire, even in the newspapers, so we (the fans) get so pumped about what he will do or so in Return and we get that shit?

You are right for not being enthralled by him, but being 14 or 15 when Empire first hit, THE Fett was a major deal ... in all of our minds at least. Lucas got so much shit over how he treated Boba that he created Jango Fett and "that is where the clones come from" as an apology. He tried to make it up to us and all that did was make us ... well ... me ... dislike Jango

Just didn't do anything for this kid. That, and he didn't have an awesome LAZERSWORD!!!! Wink

Yes, those are pretty bad-ass. Was watching the "Science of Star Wars" (I think it was, or Science of Sci-Fi maybe) and I found it hilarious that while going over all the items in Star Wars (or Sci-Fi in general) and how those items could or couldn't work in the real world, now or in the future, they had to mention the Lightsaber and discuss how light beams just ... don't stop at the end like that.
 Cheesy
Well no shit
 Cheesy

And speaking of Star Wars -
I have been trying and trying to get into the Clone Wars animated series and I am struggling. Only at episode 4 and yet I still can't get excited about watching more. It almost seems to kid oriented or something. Not that that is a bad thing, but it is harder for me to get into shows that are geared for that young of a crowd. I love animation, but if they are targeting too young a crowd I struggle with them. It;s why I think I enjoyed Young Justice over Marvel's Avengers. MA was geared to a younger crowd, or at least seemed that way.

Does Clone Wars get a little better? Should I stay with it or is it a case of if I'm struggling now, I will continue to struggle?

However, I am very hopeful for that new Star Wars animated show will pull me right in from the get go.

This looks pretty damn good and reminiscent of a certain movie that came out in 1977 called Star Wars !!!

« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 11:14:29 AM by Perry » Logged
Perry
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 04:42:25 PM »

That trailer is looking better and better each time I watch it.
 Smiley
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jedicow
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 03:23:26 PM »

it's too late for me to really bring my scope into this....

Never !!! Never too late

5 and 6 tied)phantom menace and attack of the clones.
7. Phantom & Attack:

Okay slackers  Cheesy Stop pussy-footing it and make a decision. Which one is the greater evil. Non of this they both are equally vile to me.
 Grin



ok ok damn you, sir...damn you.   Grin

i give the edge to TPM for 2 reasons....

1)the lightsaber duel between obi wai/qui gonn jin and darth maul.  i mean, seriously....that may be the 2nd best thing about the whole series.  for #1 see above...

2)for the phrase..."and there go Quadinaro's power couplings!"  i have adopted this saying for anytime something goes awry, breaks down or i hit a snag in a home project.  of course, the odd looks i get from my co-workers when our x-ray equipment goes down is awkward.

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Perry
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 04:21:13 PM »

... the phrase..."and there go Quadinaro's power couplings!" 

definitely going to have to watch for that. I don't remember that at all  Cheesy Cheesy
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jedicow
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 07:14:17 PM »

... the phrase..."and there go Quadinaro's power couplings!" 

definitely going to have to watch for that. I don't remember that at all  Cheesy Cheesy

it's during the pod race scene.  the one guy's pod doesn't start up and then his pods explode and fly all over the stadium.  the quote comes from the 2 headed announcer.
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Perry
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 07:52:10 PM »

Ahhhh, okay, gotcha.  Cheesy (Damn I loved the sound of some of those pods racers.)
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