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Author Topic: "X" marks the spot?  (Read 10690 times)
Perry
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« on: November 16, 2011, 05:19:52 PM »

Yeah, maybe the empty spot in your wallet. Below is the list of "X" related titles shipping TWICE in February. Twice in the same month:

Uncanny X-Men
Wolverine and the X-Men
Uncanny X-Force
X-Factor
X-Men
New Mutants
Deadpool

So, Mail order and LCS discounts aside ... people will have to fork over how much to read 7 titles ... 14 books in one month? Only X-FACTOR and NEW MUTANTS are $2.99 for both, but DEADPOOL (who JUST had a two issue shipping month in December) has one $2.99 and one $3.99.

Total for all = $50.86 ... for seven titles. I say again $51 for 7 titles in one month.

That is not including the other 8 titles that are just shipping once. 15 total "X" titles in one month, 22 comics. Marvel is ringing over $75 a month out of you mutant lovers. Or at least the ones that have no discount and get all the books.

$75 for one corner of one universe?

Asinine.

I hear people complain about AVENGERS being over-saturated, but jeez ...

EDIT - Just checked and X-FACTOR also had a double ship month in December. So in 3 months, there have been 10 issues you had to buy if you were a reader of DEADPOOL and X-FACTOR.

Over soaking the market is stupid. This is stupid.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 05:27:25 PM by Perry » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 07:15:39 PM »

You don't have to buy them all ya know.  Just the good ones.   Wink
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 07:31:18 PM »

You don't have to buy them all ya know.  Just the good ones.   Wink

 Grin

Well, yes, true. But how many people are they getting to buy them all? I would venture a lot, as there keep pimping out the titles.

Pisses me off we have 19 or so X books, half of which are crap, but can't keep a Nove title around? Or do an actual Crossgen book?

Look there are certainly other characters that have more than one title supporting them, but if you dont see a problem with having 18 titles supporting just one fraction ... I don't know what to say.

Spider-Man has what? 5 or 6 titles
Avengers have about 5 or 6
Hulk had about 3 or 4 at one time
Cap has a couple
Thor has a couple
X books come in at about 20? REALLY? 20?

And what kills me, from what I understand, is most are crap.

So, instead of making good books like X-FACTOR special and get more sales, the kill the book with oversaturated the crap out of the mutant landscape.

And then, to top it off, the get a good book going like the new WOLVERINE and the X-MEN, and before 6 issues has gone by the put an artist on the book that should not be ... oh ... nevermind.
 Angry

Just pisses me off that I can't read a Wolverine book.
 Cheesy
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Jeff
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 02:53:16 PM »

I've been thinking about your post for a couple of days now.

In a day and age when we all complained about late books are you really complaining about the opportunity to get a comic twice in one month?  I for one am excited that I'll be getting two issues of X-Factor in one month.  That's double the enjoyment.

I get what your saying about there being a lot of X-books out there but i have to argue that the majority of those books have different characters in them.  It's really not necessary to buy them all in order to enjoy one title.

I could use Wolverine as an example.  The title stands on its own and you don't have to buy Wolverine and the X-Men or Uncanny X-Force to enjoy where Aaron takes the little canuck.

I pick up X-Factor, Wolverine, Uncanny X-Men, Uncanny X-Force, X-Men Legacy, and New Mutants all for very different reasons.

X-Factor - love the characters - Jamie Madrox, Layla, Monet, Rictor, Banshee, and Rahne - and the way PAD writes them.

Wolverine - LOVE the stories Jason Aaron writes.  He's very skilled with the mind screw and he saves the best brutality for this book.

Uncanny X-Men - i buy this for Emma Frost and Cyclops and the interactions they have.

Uncanny X-Force - Love the premise and I love to see what Fantomex is up to.  Not to mention Psylocke.

X-Men Lecacy - I want to read about Rogue and Gambit.  This is where I find them.

New Mutants - Abnett & Lanning write it and I like Cannonball and Majik.

Of course I'm adding Wolverine and the X-Men b/c again, I love how Aaron writes Wolverine.

A lot of titles?  Yes - but I wouldn't buy them if they were "crap".   Wink   And i don't buy the ones that are.
But my point is that why wouldn't I be happy about getting two issues of X-Factor if it means more Layla Miller for that month?  WAY better than waiting 3 months for the next issue to come out.

I get the economics of your quandry but I think of it like this:  Let's say I can only buy 5 titles in a month and I rank the enjoyment of those titles on a scale from 1 to 10.  Let's use some of the comics from my list above

X-Factor - 10
Uncanny X-Men - 5
Uncanny X-Force - 8
X-Men Legacy - 7
New Mutants 5

I have a total of 35 points of enjoyment.

Now if drop the lower enjoyment ones for a double issue month of my fav's.

X-Factor issue 1 - 10
X-Factor issue 2 - 10
Uncanny X-Force issue 1 - 8
Uncanny X-Force issue 2 - 8
X-Men Legacy - 7

This month I had 43 points of enjoyment.  That's 23% more fun!

« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 02:56:14 PM by Jeff » Logged

"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 03:24:09 PM »

I understand the pure elation of people that can afford buying as many books as they want, being happy when more books are available for them to spend money on, Jeff. And I think it is great that you and I ... and others, have no need financially to curb our buying habits in such a manner, but we are not the norm.

How many people budget their buying so tightly, that a double shipping of titles can really screw that up? This is not like AMAZING SPIDER-MAN that is always a twice a month expenditure and people can decide ahead of time if that title can fit insider their spending limit. This is titles ... countless titles being thrown out at leisure JUST to capture more money for Marvel.

And I understand the business model, I just don't like it.

True, another $4 maybe nothing in the grand scheme of things to you or I, but I know people that can get really effected by having to buy another 3 or 4 titles a month ... just to get the books they love and want to continue buying. Hell, what about kids that are trying to start collecting?

I know it doesn't seem like a big deal, especially to those that it doesn't effect, but knowing someone that is having to stop buying comics because he can't afford an additional $15 bucks a month kinda defeats the purpose of gaining new readers.

Is this hyperbole? Sure, to an extent. I am not saying we are the 1% and the other 99% are hurting if they miss an additional copy of NEW MUTANTS, and I understand the aspect of "If you can't afford it, stop buying it", but in a time when we are trying to get more and more readers ... more YOUNG readers, I think having anyone question whether they want to try and afford comics is not the best practice.

Again, it seems like such a miniscule amount to us, and it really isn't an "end of the world" situation, but I don't think a monthly comic should come out at any other time, other than monthly.

**********

And Marvel should never have over 100 titles a month either. But hey, that is a bitch for another time.
 Grin
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Gay Titan
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 04:07:43 PM »

if Marvel (and DC) were really concerned about getting new, younger readers, they would lower the price!
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Jeff
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 06:01:46 PM »

Now Perry, our budgets may be bigger than most but I would hardly say an additional $4 is nothing.  You must be in the 1.5%!    Grin

Seriously, I get your point about the price but not the bonus extra issue.  I mean, would you be complaining about an extra issue if comics were still 25 cents?

Honestly I'm just playing devils advocate because it's fun getting you riled up but I'm fizzling out.  Might be the beer.

(but I still don't think $4 is nothing)
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 04:59:36 AM »

if Marvel (and DC) were really concerned about getting new, younger readers, they would lower the price!

Well that would certainly be nice, Grin and I sure think that all parties could survive and thrive on a $2.50 price point for 20 pages, at least DC is keeping it at $3 for the same 20 pages. Hell, Marvel isn't doing that with their $4 books.
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Perry
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 05:12:23 AM »


Seriously, I get your point about the price but not the bonus extra issue.  I mean, would you be complaining about an extra issue if comics were still 25 cents?

Not at all.  Grin

But that is the problem. Comics have increased more than any other item I can think of over the last 20 years. I posted an article here a looong time ago  Grin listed about 50 things that people buy and the % of cost increase over the years. Comics were at the very top, over items like cigarettes, gas, movies, beer, and countless other things. In fact, I found a piece that stated in 1975, if you were making minimum wage, it took only .3% of your check to buy one comic. in 2006 in was like 1.5%.

That ties in with what I am saying. Right now, here, gas at the nearest 7-11 store is going for $3.15 a gallon. One gallon of gas equals a comic ... on average. Marvel double shipping puts a choice out there for some people to either get 5 gallons of gas and make it to work for the week, or buy the 5 comics that were ADDITIONAL shipments for the month. Of course, or hopefully of course, he is going to choose the gas. Translates to 5 comics not being sold because they wanted to pump them out and make sales look better.
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Perry
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2011, 11:04:44 AM »

Not x related, but topic related.
Just saw the February Previews and not only is Marvel double shipping the titles above, they are also shipping two issues of:
AVENGERS
AVENGERS ACADEMY
SECRET AVENGERS
NEW AVENGERS
WINTER SOLDIER (New series, and at least it is $2.99)
ULTIMATE X-MEN
VENOM - with a whopping 5 issues - 13, 13.1, 13.2, 13.3 and 13.4  Roll Eyes (Asinine jack-asses)

that is now 13 titles (not including the insane VENOM shipping crap) that Marvel is screwing buyers on for the month of Feb.

Tell ya now, they lost me on AVENGERS ACADEMY, as I have fighting the urge to add it, and have now decided not to even bother adding it to my pull. SECRET AVENGERS I also added back on, but have now taken back off due to this crap.

Why? All so they can show the dominated total sales for one freaking month? Short sightedness seems to be the norm now at the house of no ideas.
 Angry

Do they not realize they are only cutting into the money I, and others, were going to spend on them anyway? I think they believe if the rape me and my wallet, I will not have enough money to buy the DC books that I have been buying. Well guess what jerks, I am still going to buy the same amount of DC that I was going to buy, but I am starting to lessen the books that I am buying, or possibly WOULD HAVE BOUGHT, from you.

 Tongue
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Jeff
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 07:03:12 AM »

I was just thinking, what if twice a month becomes the norm?  Are you going to really drop all titles or just get fewer?
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"If I could go back in time and like tell 11 year old me that like not only do you get to go to Comic Con but you go every year.  So much so that you get greeted by Stan Lee when you show up.  And 11 year old me would be like - How did we get so fat?" - Kevin Smith
Perry
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2012, 01:06:08 PM »

Not sure. I have been really thinking about going the trade route on most books and this certainly helps push me in that direction.

Again, this is not a money thing. I am one of the lucky peeps that can afford the luxury of an expensive habit. This is more of a slap in the face thing. They preach getting more and more comics into kids hands or at least a younger audience and yet they pull shit that totally negates that.

Look back at that double shipping post I made under mega, imagine you are a 13 year old who is collecting Hulk. You work it out with your parents or you earn the money to get you a copy or two twice a month and then you are hit with that shit.

Or, say you are a young lad dedicated to 15 marvel titles a month. You save up your money each week and hit the comic shop. You make your purchases, go home happy and think all is well. two weeks later you show up and ... what? ... another 6 issues of the titles I just bought a week or so ago? well, looks like that new title I was going to try is cut.

It just makes no sense.

At all.

Other than to get more money from us 'older' buyers. Bah.
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jedicow
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 09:49:00 AM »

just reading this thread here and wanted to share some comments...

yes, a few years ago we were all complaining about late books.  i was more vocal about it than most (still burns me up thinking about kevin smith's spidey/black cat mini  Angry).  but going to multiple books double shipping per month is waaaaay off the other side of the spectrum.  it's one thing to be waiting for a book with $2.50 burning the proverbial hole in your pocket but it's quite another for that same title to now ship twice a month @ $4 a pop.  throw this in with "events" and crossovers with mini series attached to them and you could easily spend $150 and upwards a month if you are a collector/reader.  it's ridiculous.  i understand the need to make money for a business, but at some point you are going to kill your business by outpricing your clientele. 

that's what makes me mad about the whole thing.  marvel and DC are going to kill the business at the rate they are going.  now, yes i have stopped buying monthly marvel and DC books due to the reasoning above.  that doesn't mean i want to see these characters disappear which most of them would if DC or marvel folded.  i would like to be coerced back into the fold if DC or marvel could get their acts together, but it doesn't seem to be on the horizon for me.  i will continue buying trades of older stories such as the essentials line, the marvel masterworks line, the showcase line and others so i don't want to see those forms disappear either.  the only way they will get the message is if more people like me who spent $100-$175 a month on the books decides to go cold turkey and lets them know why and forces the business model to change.   
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Perry
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« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 03:23:56 PM »

Exactly my thoughts, Cow.

But, as you may have noticed, about 24 to 48 hours ago I had an epiphany and gave up my anger and started buying into the ... buying into process. Chalk it up as me being a weak willed, small minded fan. Trust me. I am not proud of myself. I just gave up. One day I will get this addiction under control. One day.

 Embarrassed
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jedicow
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 03:46:01 PM »

Exactly my thoughts, Cow.

But, as you may have noticed, about 24 to 48 hours ago I had an epiphany and gave up my anger and started buying into the ... buying into process. Chalk it up as me being a weak willed, small minded fan. Trust me. I am not proud of myself. I just gave up. One day I will get this addiction under control. One day.

 Embarrassed

2 years ago i was that guy also.  it got to the point where i had years worth of comics stacked up that i had not read yet.  i didn't read blackest night until it had been out for over a year.  i found that i wasn't really missing it.  nothing excited me anymore and instead it was frustrating me because i was one of those guys who felt i had to read everything in order to stay up to date.  after quesada essentially ruined spider-man and i got around to reading civil war and the 3753 mini series that tied into it, i finally decided to axe all of the marvel stuff from my pull list and then DC finally got rid of me with all of the year long weekly mini series and all of their events.

i miss the characters, but i enjoy the money saved (as does my wife) and i still read the old stuff (some of which i have never read and some of which i re-read). 
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