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DC COMICS => DC HEROES TEAMS & EVENTS => Topic started by: Jimmy T on August 18, 2017, 07:50:43 PM



Title: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on August 18, 2017, 07:50:43 PM
Okay, I read #1

I feel I read it so rushed, like a puppy who is chasing his tail at the door to go outside and is afraid he'll piddle if he stops, that I can barely tell what I read.

Hell, on initial blush, I even feel a bit confused!! But I'm pretty sure I like it. :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on August 19, 2017, 03:03:19 AM
Hell, on initial blush, I even feel a bit confused!! But I'm pretty sure I like it. :D

But why?

I also finally read this thing and ... okay ... I don't get the love this is garnering all over the webs and at the shops here. It is nothing but ... no, I am not going to say that until later as it is too early to call it fan fiction based on Morrison
and Gaiman
, but let's be real, the only people that know what the hell is going on after issue #1 is Snyder and maybe the editorial staff. And I don't mean that in the good "wow, what the heck is gonna happen next?" way where we are still in the dark as to where the story will go after a good read. No, most good comics give us that. But this was so much all over the place it is laughable.

Will it come together? I assume so. It is Scott Snyder, but I see no reason why this book, that contains some of the most rushed art by Capullo I have ever been witness to (some crazy distorted characters plus more), isn't being given the grade of a 6 or 7 out of 10.

All I am hearing is "Great", "Amazing", "4 and a half (out of 5) stars" and I have to ask, WHY? It can only be based on hope and the prospect of where this title, this event (that suddenly everyone forgets they hate) and not this issue itself. This issue was not good. Why all the love?

Is it because of all the DC references? Big Deal
Is it the opening that was too long and used a stupid Ex Machina as resolution? Bah
Is it because of the map? Wow, she flipped it
Is it the way that Elongated Man
said "!"
  ;D

I mean honestly, why is this getting such love? This is not even close to being as good as the DC Rebirth issue that left us scratching our heads with questions about what was going to happen ... what was around the corner, but still dropped our jaw from the greatness that it was. That was good, no, that was great. This is a pure rambling piece of comic booking with a highly convoluted story (I think  ::)) and some hella'fied rushed art.
(That Gotham scene with the mountain? What the heck, Greg? You're better than that and Scott you know better to give him such a small space to work inside)

Will I continue reading? Sure, of course, I want to know what is going on and I like, essentially, the idea of where this is going, plus I still trust Snyder for the most part, I know Capullo can wow me at anytime and I have to try and find out what the hell is going on with that ending, but will I read all those tie-ins? Heck no. Not at all ... well, I will read the Batman one-shots but I would read those regardless of the reason behind the one-shots.
 :D :-\

With the tie-ins, if I read the title anyway, I will read the tie-in (and looking at that now ... it looks like, for me, that is only one title :D), but I still won't be happy about it. Remember being mad about all the events and the stupid tie-ins that interrupt the creative teams on said titles that the event crosses over with? Why is this different? It certainly isn't because this issue was so great. And the crossover titles? Is it any wonder they are being placed in some of DC's worst rated titles? Is that happenstance? Maybe. But ...

Teen Titans - Ha, no.
Nightwing - no, dropped awhile back
Suicide Squad - oh hell no
Green Arrow - no (Jimmy just dropped, but ...  :))
Flash - no, no (and Jim ... nevermind  ;D)
Hal & the GLC - Yep, read it anyway
Justice League - no, no, no, no.

I see no reason to buy any of these "tie-ins" except for maybe, maybe the JL one. Possibly the Flash and Hal, but the others?

Okay, enough from me. In closing ... If you dug this, great. I have no idea why, but glad it hit for you, but the fact that so many people are raving about this comic is just leaving me feel like I am from the flip side of the 52

6 out of 10 - Cool DC characters and ideas from the past.
 :-\


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on August 19, 2017, 07:40:01 AM
Perry, there is nothing you said that I disagree with. In fact, all were things that I was planning to come back and discuss. I won't lie, 6/10 is probably what I would give it as well, although...well, maybe I'm not looking at more optimistically, but, maybe I am? I guess I'm not letting myself feel too dour about it, but I could really fall down that well if the second issue isn't better.

First off, I'll talk art. Now Capullo really grew on me during his Batman run. There was a JL appearance there, and it took a little getting used to see the rest of the League in his style, but I found it just fine there. Here? Well, to be honest, I thought he was doing finishing touches over Romita art in many places. It was as crisp in as many places, and to honest, looked just downright sloppy in others.

EDIT

I don't even care stepping into a big fight at the beginning. It's like a cartoon that. No problem there.

However, after that, once the Blackhawks come in, well, yeah, most of the dialogue makes no sense-right now. I just rode it all going 'huh?!' Some times I like the sense of what the hell is happening (I grew into a big Grant Morrison fan, and any time one reads Ellis, you always feel like you are a step behind because you just aren't smart enough in the first place), but there is a bunch of times with trying to link all the past events of Carter Hall to the Wayne family where I go, seriously, what is going on?

Then, I just rode it on out and said 'bring it!'

But if I get my Carter Hall back, I am solidly on board!!!

But yeah, if I just look at this like issue 3 (since Forge and Casting would be 1 and 2), then yeah, this was the heavy exposition issue to fill in some bigger gaps.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on August 19, 2017, 02:11:40 PM
Perry, there is nothing you said that I disagree with. In fact, all were things that I was planning to come back and discuss. I won't lie, 6/10 is probably what I would give it as well, although...well, maybe I'm not looking at more optimistically, but, maybe I am?

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You should feel that way (or look at it that way, with an eye towards optimism) and I may have too had it not been for a whopping 22 out of 39 reviews giving this one issue a grade of 9 out of 10 or above, with 12 of those being perfect "10" scores. A perfect 10? This book? Come on!!! I think THAT got my goat more than anything I read or saw inside the issue.

I know reviews are ... subjective, but with that kind of praise from COMICBOOKROUNDUP (http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/dc-comics/dark-nights-metal/1) (A site I go to to get a feel on how books are generally recieved) not to mention the 8 or 9 peeps in the local shops here, dropping to their knees in effort to elevate the stature of this issue, I think I just exploded.
 ;D

Bottom line is I am very excited about where this can (probably will) go and I look forward to that journey, but does this deserve a perfect score from anyone? Is this on par or better than "Rebirth"?

Hells to the no it isn't.

And it isn't just the scoring fiasco, I know better than to listen to reviews as hey, this is all subjective and often times personal (why I am glad you enjoyed it better than I did, it is more personal to you so that is great) so what I am looking for may not be what a reviewer is looking for at the time they read their copy of "Perry and the Very Ample Women of Venus #6"
 ;D
But well, okay, I was mad they got me. I was sucked in from all the hype and all the "10"s and yet ... well ... there is no way that this book, when it is obvious the art has at least 3 problems, should be given such a great score. They set me up. I was thinking I was getting Rebirth 2.0 and I was made more mad by getting a story that, while good, was less than stellar.

But man, that is me. I hope you (and others) dig the living hell out of this title.
 8)
I hope to as well, and soon.
 :)

(Though I'm still not buying Teen Titans)
 ;) :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jeff on August 25, 2017, 05:38:40 AM

Is it the way that Elongated Man
said "!"
 ;D


No, since Elongated Man isn't in the comic.

But I LOVED the way Plastic Man
said "!"
   :D :D :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jeff on August 25, 2017, 05:44:55 AM
I think we're all on the same page here for the most part.  It was confusing especially with Batman "jet packing" locations.  I like the idea of the
dark universe
and where this is going in general.  But I don't see it as a world changing event.  Just a fun multiverse Batman story.

6 out of 10 seems about right for this issue.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on August 26, 2017, 03:47:08 AM

Is it the way that Elongated Man
said "!"
 ;D


No, since Elongated Man isn't in the comic.

But I LOVED the way Plastic Man
said "!"
   :D :D :D

DAMN IT!!!
What is wrong with me?

That is rhetorical. Do not answer please
 ;D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on August 27, 2017, 06:40:23 PM
Oh nuts, I kept forgetting to come back and harass Perry about that mindslip. However, Jeff, you did it masterfully so, in that all I can do is applaud.  ;D :D ;D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on August 28, 2017, 06:06:53 PM
 :D

Keep doing it too. Not just here. Some mental block as a kid?
 :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jeff on September 15, 2017, 08:38:02 PM
Issue 2

WHAT IN THE EFF WAS THAT I JUST READ?

2 out of 10 Grant Morrisons

And I'm being generous.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on September 16, 2017, 03:41:03 AM
 ;D

Yeah, I think it is really hard for anyone ... ANYONE not well versed in Morrison's Batman (as well as a tad bit of Gaiman's Sandman insight) to fully relate to what the heck is going on. Heck, I love Batman but I have to admit being lapse on Morrison's run. I even started it a few months (or was that years) back and now I regret not completing the task.  :D

I think I am going to go back and, at very least, read that "Return of Bruce Wayne" mini-series that Morrison wrote. I am pretty sure that is where most of this stuff is from.

I know that Bats got hit with Darkseid's Omega Beam in Final Crisis and (minimizing the story here) transported back in time and there, I believe, is where the Barbatos character comes in ... I think. If not, I am pretty sure he is at the very least mentioned in that series, so hopefully I can gather more info there.

That is my plan at least. Hope I can get to it sometime
 :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jeff on September 16, 2017, 06:06:52 AM
You are correct, Perry.  Big throwback to the Morrison run and that Return of Bruce Wayne story.  Just not well done IMO.

I mean come on...
Batmonium?  Really?

 ;D ;D :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on September 16, 2017, 06:15:16 AM
You are correct, Perry.  Big throwback to the Morrison run and that Return of Bruce Wayne story.  Just not well done IMO.

I mean come on...
Batmonium?  Really?

 ;D ;D :D

(http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/happy-smileys/happy-smiley58.gif)



Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on September 16, 2017, 07:19:45 AM
Again, I agree with all.

While Snyder, in interviews, says he's having fun and a blast with this, I learn more about the comic itself from reading the interview than I do from the comic itself.

This is entirely built off of materials from Return of Bruce Wayne.

Grant Morrison had a way of changing course each issue of something he wrote, without lead in panels or step by step continued narration. He could do that.

Snyder isn't really doing that for me.

and yes, the SPOILER tag you mentioned? Too ridiculous for me. Again, Morrison could do something with a word like that, or another, and just make me buy it. I just don't care for it here.

I feel like there was a .5 issue, or an issue of 'Batman' or 'Detective' I skipped where things would have made more sense for me. I also tend to REALLY hate it when a character continually shouts 'THERE'S NO TIME TO EXPLAIN' but, it is shown, there is CLEARLY time to explain. You know, like, when you have the Justice League chasing the world for you? That's how. This is just highlighting for me how much of a dumb prick Batman can really be. His hubris is that he doesn't learn. It's not that he doesn't trust, and then that leads to his downfall. That ALWAYS happens. It's that he doesn't learn for the next time.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on September 16, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
I also tend to REALLY hate it when a character continually shouts 'THERE'S NO TIME TO EXPLAIN' but, it is shown, there is CLEARLY time to explain.

From the mountain tops it came. The declaration spoken with such fervor, reaches the waiting ears of the flock below. Preach it, brother Jimbo. PREACH IT!!!
 :)

Absolutely, 101% agree with you on that. 


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on September 17, 2017, 07:26:34 AM
So I read or re-read The Return of Bruce Wayne #1 last night, trying to get all up on that knowledge to understand Metal more thoroughly, and I think (and Snyder could have said as much in an interview somewhere, I don't know) that this is where Snyder got the idea for
the 3 Jokers. There is a caveman/early man in this issue ... along side Vandal Savage(?) ... that the group calls Joker. Wonder if that is where Snyder got the idea as it is obvious reading Metal that he is all over Morrison's jock strap  ;D


There is a small part of my brain that thinks Plastic Man may be in this mini ... somehow ... as something perhaps? Could be wrong of course.

Onto issue #2 ... at some time or another.
 :D


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on September 17, 2017, 09:17:21 AM
Oh, you mean Plasti may be in the 'Return' mini?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually the Joker/Trickster figurehead of days long past. OR, at least represent it. You need a shining force of light to banish the gloomy darkness.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on September 19, 2017, 05:07:15 AM
Well I have now read issues 1-4 and so far issue #1 is the only one really talking about Barbatos or, from what I see, anything related to Metal to any degree. I did start issue #5 and it seems like it may have more here, so fingers crossed
 :)


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on October 28, 2017, 09:58:24 AM
Metal #3

Snyder is not Morrison. He is not crafting a tale that grows between issues and makes each instance of seeing the issue we read a spectacular moment.

It's so...blasted over the place. Instead of crafting a dart to throw at a bullseye, Snyder loads up both barrels of a shotgun with buckshot and blasts the entire dartboard.

I don't hate this...but I'm really disappointed with this so far.

I also HATE the dark multiverse. Let's study this; what's the purpose shown of the 'dark' realms? It's shown to be a place of depravity, hate, fear, all spawned from our universe. Ie, that means our universe is 'good' or light.

Maybe I'm looking too hard into it, but this stands on the principles that there is objective truths-good exists, and evil exists. Good is better, I would presume, from what is being shown here. Only through fear and hate does the dark grow. So, that means the dark needs be destroyed. ((or is this balanced with the good only exists with bad to balance?))

And I can look at all this without bringing in the benevolent creator argument yet.

On the whole, I think the dark multiverse is a dumb idea.



Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on October 29, 2017, 06:15:30 AM
While not bad enough to send to the junk yard, I do see a lot of rust in this Metal event. Yes I went for the easy shot
 :D

It just seems like an Elseworlds title and I think that is the only thing I am truly enjoying.

Sadly, I think it is going to permeate the DCU for years, instead of just being ... a thing that was here, good and enjoyable while it lasted.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on December 22, 2017, 04:45:45 PM
Metal #4

I wrote a long emotional speech here but I just deleted it. I think instead of a four or five paragraph diatribe, I can sum up all my feelings and thoughts so much more succinct by this and this alone -

Metal issue #4 ... Ugh.
 ::)


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on January 17, 2018, 08:32:39 PM
I'm sick of waiting for this to get really good. Like, those 2 Forge and Anvil issues had me so intrigued! Sure, you were messing around with old history, giving it a bit of the Johns-ian tweak of the cheek and eye wink to make it fun, like it all mattered, and you built some great layered 'what's happening now?!' suspense and new theater like Morrison, but Snyder...WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU GOING WITH ALL THIS?!

I think I'm convincing myself that I'll like it as it goes along and goes all the way to the end. But, I'm sorry
Batmanium
just about made me do a spit take due to how damned stupid that sounded.

I love the importance of Hawkman, and history, and nth metal, and making 'meta' come from metal, but I'm having a hard time believing in the writing of the story.


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Perry on February 01, 2018, 12:17:15 AM
 >:(

Issue #5



(http://replygif.net/i/1368.gif)


Sums it all up perfectly. One more issue. Just one more issue ...
 :-\



Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jimmy T on February 17, 2018, 04:20:23 PM
I hate an event book that crucially needs the tie ins to fill in the gaps and explain things.

(Secret Empire you are FAR more guilty of this!!)

But by issue 5, I had just about started to feel the enthusiasm again for the meaning of it all. Why?

As Perry said, one more issue. One more issue.

This issue was the rising action of story design; it reaches the zenith of climax, and will fall back to resolution. In one issue.

But mostly so far it's been bullshit to me.

Nertz.  :-\


Title: Re: Dark Nights METAL
Post by: Jeff on February 19, 2018, 08:02:32 AM
I'm just ready for it to be over.  This was a big let down.