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MARVEL COMICS => MARVEL TV & MOVIES => Topic started by: Perry on November 19, 2015, 11:25:21 AM



Title: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 19, 2015, 11:25:21 AM
Less than 14 hours for Netflix to open up Jessica Jones.

Already told the wife I am starting at 5:00 A.M, right when she has to clock in at work, as I know she wants to see this.  ;D

Of course as I am staying up late watching Thursday Night Football, I also need her to wake me before she goes to work so maybe my plan is flawed
 :-\

 :D :D :D


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jeff on November 19, 2015, 01:00:11 PM
Man - I've had this on the calendar for weeks but not sure when I'm going to be able to sit and watch it!  Wife and I will be alone starting to Friday thru Thanksgiving since the kiddo will be at grandma's.  You'd think that would be the perfect time but I see a lot of honey do's in my future.


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 19, 2015, 01:19:31 PM
Just remember, "honey-do's" go both ways.
 ;)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 20, 2015, 04:18:40 AM
 :)
Spoiler Free Thoughts on...

Episode one

Very impactful. Makes ya feel, for sure.

I was not sold, originally, on Ritter being Jessica. I thought she did a great job in Breaking Bad and her comedy "Don't Trust the B#### in Apartment 23" was too short lived, but just couldn't grasp her being Jessica. Well, she is not the Jessica I pictured, but she may just be better. She was fantastic. Portraying anger, fear, drunk... haha, just all over goodness.

And we all know Luke Cage is here, so no spoiler there, but he was also very well portrayed. Way better than I had hoped, actually.

The other Marvel hero I won't mention as you may ... MAY have missed that spoilage ahead of time, but I hope to see more of ... him/her ...  ;) later as well.

Not trying to say too much, but I will say that this first episode was a good deal better than the first episode of D.D. and I really enjoyed that. This one, with the emotion, just blew that away.

Spend one hour watching episode one and you will be hooked and eagerly awaiting more.

9 outta 10 - Shots of cheap alcohol
 :D


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 21, 2015, 05:21:28 AM
Episodes 2-5
Again, no spoilers, just a fast chat  ;D

Sadly, both the story and the action took a turn around episode 3 or 4 and by 5 it really goes off the good track. There is a twist in Luke and Jess' relationship that is ... well, I won't even say what it does until more people see it, but ... Me no like.

And the fighting scenes? While DD had me going "oh yeah", this stuff here is like right out of T.J. Hooker (or any other 80's action television show). Pretty damn weak. The fight scenes are just bad. As bad as the sex scenes? Even worse.

Hoping this turns around back to good, as I have really not overly enjoyed the last 3 episodes. Yes, Tennant is great and the first two episodes were really good (even with the overuse of sex) but the past three issues just really ... I don't know ... not suck for me ... but are not as good by any means.
 :-\
 :-\

EDIT - I got a little too spoilery and had to edit some out  :D


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on November 21, 2015, 07:22:57 AM
I watched the first 2 eps. Pretty decent. Pretty good.

I think I can answer for myself, but I'll say it: will all these Netflix shows be so damned morose and bleak?

Answer: in creating their 'street level heroes', Marvel/Netflix are casting no illusions about the "real" New York most people live in. Which seems to be utter squalor and depravity.

Even with Daredevil, the show(s) just feel a bit depressing with it's 'no hope for anyone to rise up above the dirt' presentation.

I'm not looking for another Superman the Movie here (and I realize I do have other options available in Flash and Supergirl), but there's a reason I don't watch Law & Order SVU-it bums the shit out of me and makes me feel worse about myself.

First ep ending is so very fierce, and made it a great hook for the series. But it certainly wasn't a high note!!


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 21, 2015, 09:13:21 AM
In regards to the 'dread' of the show, I see it the opposite, Jimmy. There is a chance at overcoming the very harsh, stark, bleakness that these shows illuminate, in contrast to say the Walking Dead where there is literally no happiness to be found . Or at least no happiness that last for more than a day or two.
 ;D

While these shows (Netflix) do show the darker edge to New York (or the comics that represent that side of that city), they also give us a brightness that WD just can't deliver. I mean, DD beating the Kingpin was such a relief that while it didn't make the vileness wash away, it did give us, the viewer, a sense of relief or satisfaction that someone "paid for the crime". That the 'Hero' did win in the end ... even if it is just for now.
 ;)

I am only about 9 episodes in so far (thankfully it has gotten better again ... the poor writing and direction in spots don't totally ruin the product, but it came close) and I am already despising (loving) the Purple Man and I am looking forward to his ... well ... end or capture or ...
 ;)

But I understand what you mean. On the flip side, I think that is what troubles me about Superman, or early Superman at least. It was too damn bright, too damn happy, too damn fake in comparison to what life really is. Life isn't strolls on golden paved walkways with a warm light of safety shinning down on us, it is harsh at times. It is downright dreary AT TIMES. Not all the time, like in the Walking Dead (that show is just hard to watch over and over as it can be so depressing) and not bright and overly hopeful like the CW (who even with their darkest periods in their shows, struggle in making me feel the slightest bit down or saddened), but it is a combination of both happiness and sadness, hope and despair, light and dark and usually ... usually ... we go through periods of both for awhile before the other rears its head again.
 :-\

But it is all a matter of taste, for sure. When I step out of my life and into the fictional world, I like the feeling of being saddened or angry at the beginning and through the middle. The struggle makes the story for me. Yet I also like having an ending with a happy or peaceful outcome (Like the movie Bambi  :D or ANY damn Disney movie  :D :D) as it fits what I feel life to be more in tone with. But that's me. Others like their entertainment to be escapism. Either the dread of living life with Zombies  ;D or the glee and brightness a good heartfelt story can bring.

But don't get me wrong, I am certainly one that likes a movie that leaves me pissed off that there was no happy ending also. Like The Mist !!!! Holy Hell that was a gut-wrenching final. Loved it!!!

But getting back to your point ... yeah, these Netflix shows can be a downer.
 ;D


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jeff on November 21, 2015, 10:38:31 PM
Got to watch the first two episodes today.  I see what you mean by depressing.  But in spite of that I like it so far. I'm halfway through episode 3 now. Maybe I'll make more progress than I thought!


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 22, 2015, 06:04:20 AM
I see what you mean by depressing. 

This from a Walking Dead fan?
 ;D

This should be like X-Men the Animated Series for you  ;D ;)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on November 22, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
Without a doubt, I can at least feel the personal struggle, of say, mental disease here. Depression, PTSD, or whatever they are going to call it here-it works. I feel it. I like that. I can see how that will develop and be a theme here. And I'm calling it good.

But damn, bleak is bleak. I want to see some color on the screen at some point! ;)

I can't binge these shows. Can't binge Breaking Bad. Just the content wears on a guy-because it is done well! I know that's the point of the show! :)

I just wear that emotion alot when I watch shows like this. It's hard to imagine that these people go on; I'm not sure I could. But they can. And that's why I watch. :)

And yes, The Mist was perfect for all those reasons. Much like Storm of the Century, those horrible choices and situations faced, I think, were met just as how I imagine desparate people meet them.


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 22, 2015, 04:26:54 PM

I can't binge these shows. Can't binge Breaking Bad. Just the content wears on a guy-because it is done well!

That's the only way I can watch :D I get it all out in one rush. I can watch shows like Flash, which I enjoy the hell outta of, weekly without issue, it is good fun, but things that are just stark or emotionally draining? Those I have to push through in chunks, when I can. I watch WD at least 2, sometimes 3 episodes in a row. I feel I can get the "stink of depression" washed off of me quicker. Like if I watch each week it just starts to permeate my clothes like cigarette smoke. If you have to go to a dive bar, get all your pool playing and darts out in one session, so that smoke doesn't keep getting on your t-shirts each week you go back. Hit that bar once a month and stay longer. That's my thinking (as screwy as it is)
 ;D
Flash I like to sit on me for awhile. Let that odor linger week after week
 ;D

Perhaps that is why I like my Image books in HC as well? Just an impromptu insight into my psyche perhaps?

Maybe I like the darker edged stories in collected volumes as, while I enjoy the hell out of them, deep down I just want it to be over? Monthly titles need to be more bright? Happy? Hmmm ... maybe.

And yes, The Mist was perfect for all those reasons. Much like Storm of the Century, those horrible choices and situations faced, I think, were met just as how I imagine desparate people meet them.

Yeah, man. Exactly
 8)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jeff on November 22, 2015, 06:15:38 PM
I see what you mean by depressing. 

This from a Walking Dead fan?
 ;D

This should be like X-Men the Animated Series for you  ;D ;)

I just meant I get what Jimmy is saying.  Didn't say I didn't enjoy it.   :P


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 23, 2015, 10:59:45 AM
I just meant I get what Jimmy is saying.  Didn't say I didn't enjoy it.   :P

I know  :D Just seemed weird to see you call this show depressing due to ... that thing happening ... when you enjoy a show with so much worse being presented on a weekly basis.

It was just a joke.  ;)

Having said that and being done with all episodes, all I will say (still spoiler free) is that this started so much better than DD, so much that I had my hopes really set high that this puppy was going to be even better overall, I am left with some feeling of disappointment. There are a lot of things wrong with this show. Lots. From the horrible fighting sequences to the needless and poorly used sex scenes this show just missed on its way to topping DD.

Not that it isn't still a good watch, it is ... by in large. Heck, I am still glad they made it, I am still glad I watched it. Fact is that the missteps didn't ruin the experience as badly as they could have and in fact, I think that shows just how strong this show could've have been. I mean even with all the mistakes (perceived solely by me or otherwise), I still ended up enjoying the show. That says something, right?

Funny thing about the ending, again still spoiler free, is that they make actual mention of an issue I had with countless other scenes. They literally point out a problem with the shows writing as a plot function of the ending. Quite hilarious to me.
Can't wait to discuss that with you guys!!!!!
 :D :D




Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on November 23, 2015, 12:24:34 PM
With the wife still out of town at a conference until after 10, I figure I'll hammer out 2-3 with dinner tonight then.  8)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on November 24, 2015, 08:21:44 AM
I had a facepalm of epic proportions last night.

Hero best friend! Who? What hero? Her name is Trish.

Trish Walker....Trish, a nickname from Patricia....which also creates a little used nickname of...Patsy....

Patsy Walker, aka Hellcat.

sumnabitch! Idiot!! I was glad to see a bit of Patsy's veeerrrryyy early history briefly  mentioned with all the teen/hearthrob magazines that she was a star of.  ;)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on November 24, 2015, 09:42:19 AM
I guess I'll keep this in the spoilers tag; don't know how much of this is just impressions.

By the way, around Ep 5 The Sandwich

Part of what keeps this show from being really great to me is how ponderously slow it is. It seems bloated on its available screen time. As if, knowing that they have 52-55 minute episodes, the writers/directors/producers can just seemingly waste time on minutae.

I think, much like Daredevil, that by the end of this, I'll believe they could have just trimmed 2 episodes off the entire viewing run. In this Sandwich ep alone, we watched her trail the junkie (Michael??) 3 times to the same spot in the park. To pause, to watch, to consider; as the junkie stood, and looked, and fretted, and was given directions. I just want to say 'get to the point already! your build up isn't as amazing as you believer, show makers!'

But-BUT-I think the detail of the hurt that she, and the other abused and hurt people is really good. It's hard to watch how she tries to be a normal person after being a victim.

However, she apparently was always an asshole, even before Kilgrave. Now, true, she's living with the loss of an accident that took her parents. There is sympathy for this Jessica, but man, it's hard. Well, I should say that I don't like her, but I root for the results she wants to get.

Still, so very bleak, so very very bleak.



Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jeff on November 24, 2015, 09:58:37 PM
I had a facepalm of epic proportions last night.

Hero best friend! Who? What hero? Her name is Trish.

Trish Walker....Trish, a nickname from Patricia....which also creates a little used nickname of...Patsy....

Patsy Walker, aka Hellcat.

sumnabitch! Idiot!! I was glad to see a bit of Patsy's veeerrrryyy early history briefly  mentioned with all the teen/hearthrob magazines that she was a star of.  ;)

I did the same thing.  How awesome is it that she's in this?  Hoping she'll be in the Defenders too.


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on November 25, 2015, 07:17:03 AM
Yeppers, that is the other hero I didn't want to say anything about.  ;D I had no clue she was going to be on here. And don't feel too bad guys, they didn't use her last name right away. Most of the things you heard or saw (like posters) was just "Trisha". So, maybe you didn't miss it as badly as you thought.
 ;D



Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 02, 2015, 08:35:58 AM
Alright; the show's done, time to ramble through my thoughts under the spoiler tag.

ALL DONE!

I'll just immediately fill this out with my immediate thought upon seeing credits roll. "That was between meh and okay."

Were there great moments? Oh hell yeah! Can't deny that. Portrayal of characters, portrayal of threats, portrayal of the abuse and what that lead to to create character mood, motivation and interaction. Yes, yes all there.

The show can, and does, make you question if you can or should like Jessica. Obviously, being the titular character, and through many actions, is a hero(ine, if you need that branding). And, I am always in the frame of mind that being a Lawful Good paladin in any roleplaying game doesn't necessarily mean you can't be a jerk or an ass either. ;)

In the end, it's not JJ's performance that brings any part of the show down for me. It's not the noir styling either; I quite liked the passion of the moments and the isolation of abuse that drove many parts.

It's just...not...that...likeable! Of an event!

Here's where I go with that; every time I see an episode of 'Law & Order: SVU' (that damned "doink-doink" gavel sound makes me pay attention channel flipping to see the crime of the week)..um..oh yeah, every time I see an ep I feel worse about myself and life for having watched it. That show does not have happy endings, or resolutions for justice done either. People are dead, abused or worse, and the villain either was killed in apprehension, or may go to jail without enough justice dispensed, and the heroes(cops) can't paint a better picture to the grieving family.

Jessica Jones just left me feeling worse about the victims and the world they have to go. What rehab groups/therapists/counselors or even close friends will be there for someone who was mind controlled? The man who left his young son wherever due to Kilgrave's order is ruined. How can the son ever love his father again? (easy enough, perhaps, if the son can forgive), but what about the mother? She'll never understand. Nor will close friends or acquaintances. Lives are irrevocably ruined everywhere.

Does that make Kilgrave a 'great' villain? Um, perhaps. Does that make him an abysmal, psychotic human being? Damned right. He is a psychopath, through and through. I like how the show does try and make him...endearing, to a bit. The actor is very charismatic in his role, and even though they try to make him a bit sympathetic or relateable, the show at least does not go and try to make him any less a foul human being. That I felt was done well. Without a doubt, he had to die. Everyone knew that. However, the actual act of killing will make any good human being at least think just once "is this what I really should do?" IF nothing else, a good person will still feel remorse about taking another's life.

I'll still say that 2 eps should have been trimmed out of the season. Netflix just spends so much fucking time on minutae. It drags.....so....much. I'm not speaking that Ep 3 or 8 have to go; but 2 episodes worth of air time should have been trimmed. Long pregnant pauses, extended shots of eye looks, long walks; cut some shit out!!

That, and the whole time of Kilgrave's imprisonment in that building was one weird clusterfuck of writing and happenstance that was befuddling to watch. I kept going "what the hell is GOING on here?!!" A big hiccup in this season.

I made this comment to a friend; if not for some of the superheroics here, would I have kept up with it? Or, to be more precise, I watched because it was a Marvel show. If this would have been a 'Heroes' spin-off, or something in the 'Powers' universe, would I have cared to keep up? I worry that the needle on the gauge would have crept towards half-'no'.

I didn't hate it. Would I recommend it? Eh...that's the hard part. Depends on the person asking. I know which friends of mine shouldn't watch it, even with their interests in the Marvel Cinematic world.

I'm not looking for 'Superman The Movie' in everything I watch; far from it! It's not like 'Lost' where I tell people to avoid it. If you really love this show; good for you! If you really hate this show; well, good for you, too! Yet, as the show leaves you showing Jessica's self-loathing battling the hope that good can arise, well, I feel the same about the show with those same words. ;)

However...bring on Luke Cage!!!!!! Wahoo!!!!



Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on December 02, 2015, 11:55:45 AM
I expected nothing else.
 ;)

And that's not a slam, it's just not a show I figured you would enjoy. Too dreary.

Don't get me wrong, technically it has problems, lots, but at the end of the day the story was strong enough to pull it out of the muck that some writers had placed inside. I figured the "dark" feel would be a strike against it from the get go, but on one point I totally disagree, budro,
Kilgrave was perfection!!!!
:P

I can still, even through the horrible fight sequences and the much mis-used (and far too often) sex scenes and some questionable writing, give this a solid 8 as it didn't have too many "Oh really?" moments for me ... except for every single thing regarding Ruben. EVERYTHING  ::). You name it, it bothered me. From the totally ridiculous like ...
How did Malcolm get the body out of the apartment and all the way to the docks? Drag it through half of Hell's Kitchen or get a taxi and throw the body in the trunk? His sister reacted HOW when she found out about his death? Really? All the way to the creepy incest feeling between he and his sister.
Yeah, hated it all. But basically, the story was decent enough through all the problems I had with it.

Over all, not as good as DD, but not a bad story and a worthy addition to the MUTVU that has me excited about the next round of shows. Yep, an easy 8

Sooo, how would you rate this, Jimmy? Say outta 10 ...what would you give it? Would you say your rating would be more in the 5 range? Or was your dissatisfaction enough to warrant an even lower score? Just curious
 :)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 02, 2015, 12:50:36 PM
I expected nothing else.
 ;)

And that's not a slam, it's just not a show I figured you would enjoy. Too dreary.

Eh, I can like dreary and dark. Hell, as I sit here and think, this Kilgrave and his actions are almost exactly how Stephen King would write the character. And I love Stephen King works!! Wow, I just blew my own mind!!

Quote
Don't get me wrong, technically it has problems, lots, but at the end of the day the story was strong enough to pull it out of the muck that some writers had placed inside. I figured the "dark" feel would be a strike against it from the get go, but on one point I totally disagree, budro,
Kilgrave was perfection!!!!
:P

Again, I think I was a bit muddled in my rambling. Kilgrave was an excellent villain. Great use of what a psychopath is. I guess I don't want to say I liked him, as what he did went beyond foul <comic> villainy to full on serial killer. He wasn't...human. It's hard for me to share a human emotional response to a being who is anything but human. It's kind of my reaction to people who loved Travolta and Jackson's characters from Pulp Fiction. They dug their quotes and dress and style-but all I could see were murderers. Nothing about them inspired me to laugh at their faults or enjoy their situations. The sooner dead, the better.

But yeah, Kilgrave was 'wow!' in this show.

Quote
... From the totally ridiculous like ...
How did Malcolm get the body out of the apartment and all the way to the docks? Drag it through half of Hell's Kitchen or get a taxi and throw the body in the trunk? His sister reacted HOW when she found out about his death? Really? All the way to the creepy incest feeling between he and his sister.
Yeah, hated it all. But basically, the story was decent enough through all the problems I had with it.

Yeah...yeah!! How was that believed?!
And the weird twin/sibling love shit they had? I mean, DD liked to do this to show that so many people at 'street level' in NYC are fucked up, but this was so....out there. Although, I think the sister's forgiveness speech to Malcolm at the end was some great writing and presentation. Kinda floored at that moment.

Quote
Over all, not as good as DD, but not a bad story and a worthy addition to the MUTVU that has me excited about the next round of shows. Yep, an easy 8

Sooo, how would you rate this, Jimmy? Say outta 10 ...what would you give it? Would you say your rating would be more in the 5 range? Or was your dissatisfaction enough to warrant an even lower score? Just curious
 :)

I would comfortably just say 6. It's above average, but not something I'm telling everyone to watch either. There was much that I was really tuned in for on episodes, but other times where a sudoku just held my interest more. I also wouldn't rewatch this season again. No thank you, I would politely say. I've already had it.

If you're curious, I'd give Daredevil a 7.5-8. (For your own knowledge, I wouldn't give any single season of Arrow higher than 8, either. Some eps hit 10, but some eps were 2 or 3 as well to drag seasons down. So, make of that what you will; at least for a reference and personal tastes. Flash season 1 was probably a 9, to be honest! I think my nostalgia of Buffy would give Season 3 or 6 a 10, if I'm thinking right quick off the top of my head).

I'm also happy to rate things like...a Jackie Chan movie a 4, but man, I love it to death simply for the choreography, stunts, and fights!! even with it being a poor excuse for a movie! 8)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 02, 2015, 12:56:06 PM
Also....!!!

NUKE
So is Daredevil's 'Born Again' storyline going to be the story for the Defenders movie? Maybe something as rampant as Kingpin bringing all of Hell's Kitchen/parts of New York laid low, a military unit is brought in for peace and security, lead by Nuke Simpson, and everything just goes to shit with the Defenders rising up as one to protect everyone? That'd be cool!!

So many characters all over the place!!! JJ, Luke Cage, Patsy Walker/(Hellcat someday???), Nuke, Kilgrave! Just wow.

But also, (DD spoiler)
Not one Ben Urich to write about it. Seriously, WTF with that decision??? I understand Night Nurse is going to be the connecting glue, but...still...STILL!!!...I can't...even....Urich...



Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on December 03, 2015, 06:39:28 AM
Okay, Jimmy, I understand ya.

However, I think you are a fascinating subject when it comes to good/bad. And I mean that it the nicest, coolest way  :) Your thoughts that murderers are murderers perfectly describes your love of DC. At least in the way I had originally describe the difference in the companies (DC/Marvel). I am NOT saying you have a simplistic view, please, please, please don't think that is what I am saying. It is just a straight forward, cut through the fat, point of fact view. Not simplistic. Just factual.
 ;D

I see, using your example, John Travolta as Vincent Vega and I think "How did this guy get this way? Was his childhood shit? Is he just a 'natural born killer'?" I like to delve into the bad characters, regardless of who they are, while the good guys ... I don't know ... the good guys are just too dull most of the time FOR ME (Kinda why I like the "anti-hero", although I hate the term). It's why I have always liked 70's and early 80's Hulk, Punisher, at first, and lots of other not-really-heroes. I like to give lots of thought to the bad guys or to characters that do bad.

You on the other hand ... and I could be wrong, but from everything I can tell ... love to do the same, but for the good guys. You have a strong sense of good, a thin line of acceptance for bad and as such, if you are bad, screw you, not worth my time, but you like to soak up all you can on the good side of things. I think that is what makes Superman so good for you. He is you (don't get cocky  ;)). He represents you, at the heart at least, and I think maybe ... just maybe ... when you see a good guy that is not whole-fully good, you get a bitter taste in your mouth. You like heroes to be heroes. You like Flash, you like that Arrow no longer kills  :)

Okay, truth is I am on some really strong meds right now, so this could all be complete bull shit. My way of trying to find out why you didn't care for both DD and Jessica as much as I did. I am just me talking out of my ass as my keyboard waves back and forth  :D but right now, that is what I am thinking.  :D Don't be surprised if tomorrow ... well two more days actually as I have one more day on these  :D ... but don't be surprised if in two days I come back, tail between my legs, questioning what the hell I was thinking when I wrote the above, but for today ...
 :D

Also....!!!

NUKE
So is Daredevil's 'Born Again' storyline going to be the story for the Defenders movie? Maybe something as rampant as Kingpin bringing all of Hell's Kitchen/parts of New York laid low, a military unit is brought in for peace and security, lead by Nuke Simpson, and everything just goes to shit with the Defenders rising up as one to protect everyone? That'd be cool!!

So many characters all over the place!!! JJ, Luke Cage, Patsy Walker/(Hellcat someday???), Nuke, Kilgrave! Just wow.

But also, (DD spoiler)
Not one Ben Urich to write about it. Seriously, WTF with that decision??? I understand Night Nurse is going to be the connecting glue, but...still...STILL!!!...I can't...even....Urich...


Yes, I think you are spot on about the story-line, at least in part with ******* being the foil, or at least part of the foil  :D Wondering how they would fill it all around that story though ... but it has been a long time since I read it ... still remember that art though
 :)

And as far as your second comment/spoiler of DD -
What about the fact that the only black guy, of any screen time, gets the damn death nail again? I just knew they were gonna write it so he survived. I mean after Ben especially. (and yes, I still feel bad about Ben  :'()


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 04, 2015, 08:17:30 AM

Okay, truth is I am on some really strong meds right now, so this could all be complete bull shit.
Naw, we're just talking!  :)


I see, using your example, John Travolta as Vincent Vega and I think "How did this guy get this way? Was his childhood shit? Is he just a 'natural born killer'?" I like to delve into the bad characters, regardless of who they are, while the good guys ... I don't know ... the good guys are just too dull most of the time FOR ME (Kinda why I like the "anti-hero", although I hate the term). It's why I have always liked 70's and early 80's Hulk, Punisher, at first, and lots of other not-really-heroes. I like to give lots of thought to the bad guys or to characters that do bad.

You on the other hand ... and I could be wrong, but from everything I can tell ... love to do the same, but for the good guys. You have a strong sense of good, a thin line of acceptance for bad and as such, if you are bad, screw you, not worth my time, but you like to soak up all you can on the good side of things.

I wouldn't say I'm as that hard-lined about the situation. Let's take this; I loved John Wick. I know he was a mob hitman, I know he's killed so many that even 'out of the game' others still fear his name. Yes, he's a murderer. But, he's not entirely remorseless. He had to stop; he had to leave. He performed for hell, and thought he could live in heaven with the love of his life. He lost her, and suffered for it, but tried to continue on. See? REDEMPTION!!!!

That's how I love the bad guys. There wasn't a single redeeming thing about Vega. That, and Tarantino glorifies violence so much to make it appear sexy, and to make his killers appear cool, or above the mortal realm that the rest of the characters inhabit. I <personally> do find it digusting. ;)

I love a bad guy that makes a hero rise that much more. Take 'Endgame' in Batman. Batman should just kill the Joker. He even had the intent. But in the end, he foiled Joker's plans, saved a lot of people, stood up to his fears, and foiled the Joker by humiliating him and taking away the power Batman had over Joker. Great moment. Great, great moment. :)

It's not that I won't like the bad guy, or utterly dismiss them. But Kilgrave is irredeemable. Bad, rabid dogs need to get put down. and, let's look at Vader. Killer of the Jedi, we've seen him kill throughout the classic Trilogy on a whim, but he was redeemed. And being redeemed doesn't mean 'wipe the slate clean' but it does mean to attempt to attone for what you've done. Sometimes, that' journey is far harder, and far greater, than any hero story as well.

Much like Batman v Superman has to find redemption for Man of Steel. ;D



Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on December 04, 2015, 11:19:40 AM
But without them being vile or evil or bad, prior to their redemption, what would the hero be? The hero would be pointless without the evil. Vader is cool because he is THE dark figure. His redemption didn't make Luke, his villainy did (well, in a round about way  ;D). I actually hate that Vader turned on the Emperor because, well, his bite is now just a bark. I read these Star Wars books and, while I enjoy the hell out of them, I think "Man, this would be so much more impactful if I didn't know that the "guy in black" was gonna puss out".
 :D  

Would you really like it if Joker became redeemed? Is that even possible with him?

I can get you like a good redemption story, everyone does, but if all the bad guys just were shown to be ... remorseful or had a change of heart, evil and villainy would lose its teeth. Vega's lack of any form of compassion, or the way it was presented as such for most of the movie, is what makes that part so much easier to hate.

Again, I think the happiness of "good prevails" is what you enjoy. It's the "S" on your chest is all I'm saying.
 :)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 04, 2015, 12:17:02 PM
I should just go back and re-edit my post before with the line "chance for redemption."

I don't want all villains to be redeemed. Not at all! That's not a point that I wanted to, or wished to make. Apologies there.

I'd say that the villains who have the chance for redemption on their path make for far more interesting characters (in many cases, I'll blithely say). After all, who's more interesting: Darth Vader or Carnage?

To a degree....my interpretation of villainy and scum can honestly alter and change between comics and movies. You don't kill Joker in 2015 because you rob 2020 fans of great Joker stories. Such is the nature of the comic book medium.

In a single movie/visual representation of a rather finite storytelling theme, then Vega and Kilgrave are the antagonists who I would be okay with seeing put 6 feet under. Hell, in that analogy, I see Vega as a far worse "person" than Kilgrave, because he was a "normal" human who made those choices. Kilgrave got himself really warped by experimentation, then by his own psychoses of not knowing if anyone ever told him the truth, and by acting like a spoiled child in every manner because he could, and no one could hold him accountable.

I did laugh at the " was gonna puss out" statement. Alot!  :D

I, too, love to hate a character. I just don't like moving into full disgust of a character. (Vega=full disgust. Kilgrave=love to hate).

And there's always a part of me that likes to second guess the statement of "where would be the hero be without his villain?" I understand this mostly is seen through a literary lens. But I see your roundabout way there. ;)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on December 05, 2015, 02:44:41 PM
Cool beans, Jimmy. I get ya. I understand.
 :)

I just like to think of what made Vega they way he is. I mean, you are shown about Kilgrave, but what if Vega had a similar upbringing?
It's all minutia by now ...  :D :D ... I'm sorry, honestly.

I do get what you mean, I just like the evil guys regardless of how they got there, though I like to see how or wonder how as well. But again, I'm just talking myself into a circle now and taking you down with me.
 ;D ;D :D

But regardless ... to me .... you're still Superman while I'm more Batman (in DC anyway), and that's all cool.
 ;D ;)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jimmy T on December 05, 2015, 03:16:13 PM
But regardless ... to me .... you're still Superman while I'm more Batman (in DC anyway), and that's all cool.
 ;D ;)

Does that mean we have to start shooting commercials now?  8)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Perry on December 05, 2015, 05:19:24 PM
  ;D Yeah, good looking ones too  :)


Title: Re: Jessica Jones
Post by: Jeff on January 01, 2016, 05:48:11 PM
As usual I'm behind everyone else but I finally got to watch the last three episodes yesterday and today.  I'm kind of glad I took so long because the not-so-good episodes are a distant memory and all I'm now impacted by are the greatness of this ending.

I freaking LOVED this show.  I think David Tenant topped his Dr Who performances.  His Kilgrave was unfreaking believable!

I re-read this whole thread and I agree with Jimmy that I would pick and choose who I would recommend it to.  But I do that with all shows.  I'm not going to recommend Flash to my high school buddy who still lives in uber-jock sports world. But to my friends that love the characterization in Walking Dead? Oh yeah, they need to watch this.

I'm still on my high of watching the ending so I'm giving it an 8.5 to 9.  Not quite as good as Daredevil but close.

And I totally geeked out on the last episode when I saw
Night Nurse from Daredevil!

Yeah, that was awesome.