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DC COMICS => DC HEROES SOLO BOOKS => Topic started by: Jimmy T on July 03, 2014, 11:06:56 AM



Title: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on July 03, 2014, 11:06:56 AM
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53842

Cross pollination!


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jeff on July 03, 2014, 04:37:30 PM
And just like that I'm closer to my $30 month.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on July 04, 2014, 04:45:44 AM
 :D

Sad to see Lemire and Sorrentino go, but will keep my eyes open on their next project (won't be long). They really did a bang up job on Arr ... Green Arrow.
 ;D

But that's why I am not too mad about this cross pollution (and no, that is not a typo  ;D). It was already deep in the current run of this comic, so how much is really going to change? I do hate the idea of "cross-pollination" becoming more prevalent (And oh joy, yes, they're bringing Felicity over from the show ... uggghhh) and hate it could become the norm in other titles, but here, much in the way Wally West is dead and gone for you guys (and I agree looking at that current, blasphemous incarnation), Oliver Queen is also dead and has been for years now.

However, all that aside, I think the new teams idea of bringing this new younger, TV Ollie closer to the way the old, comic Ollie was, is not a bad idea. Maybe some of the old comic will cross-over and pollinate the TV show.
 ;)

Edit - Of course another "good" thing about this cross-pollination is DC fans are getting another Deathstroke title, just months after the last one faltered, due to the popularity of him being on Arrow. Well, in a way I guess. It is the new Suicide Sguad book I think. So ... yeah.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on July 08, 2014, 11:22:04 AM
I've been thinking on this a number of days now. Trying to get thoughts in order, I should almost approach this as a term paper, write, edit, proofread, then present.

But I"m going to ramble instead.  ;D

So what's up with Green Arrow?

I won't lie, I recently reread Cry for Justice and then Identity Crisis-and that Ollie/GA is the man. Love his attitude, his persona; that's a character I want around.

But why won't that character sustain any book? Let's not forget that at one point, his book was so low, they brought Black Canary back into the title fold, the book got cancelled, then got restarted again after Brightest Day (and...did it get cancelled again, or just end with nu52? Can't remember off the top of my head).

Then this new guy...well, hasn't been all that great until the first 19 issues are totally discounted. Jim Lee's love of all things goggle-ly looks ridiculous on a Robin Hood, as does ultra lined body armor and greaves. So, visually, GA has been a dud too (until Sorrentino's laying off of those aesthetics).

As for the new team to make the book a little more like the show, and a little more like before...is that so bad?

I mean, honestly?

I ask, because with all things comics, they won't stay the way I* want them to be.

*(I, also refers to all of you and your own personal opinions as to how they should be. ;)

Are we pining for a GA that used to be? To a degree, yes, but that's also the character we fell in love with, first saw, etc. That guy does seem to be done with....but if they can make our nu guy a little more like him...isn't that what we should want? Batman seems to do that every decade or so, and everyone seems to be fine with that.

As far as changing too much of his past, or incorporating more of the TV show...well, what do you know about GA?

I'll admit, I am truly ignorant of his past and supporting characters. Or does he really have any? You Superman, you know Lois, Lex, Jimmy, Perry, etc. Batman has Robin (pick one), Gordon, Alfred, Bullock; all names you easily call forth. Villains? All can do that easily enough.

What...does GA have? I honestly don't know anything besides his Arrow family, let alone a villain beyond Merlin or Vertigo (and I guess Brick, if that stands up).

That said, I don't see much of great GA lore that wasn't a simple copycat of Batman's. If Diggle and Felicity are brought in...why not? Jimmy Olsen came from the radio show, as did Kryptonite. Batman got some concepts from his 40s TV show also, I believe.

If it enriches GA, makes it fun to read, doesn't spit in the face of everything before it, at this point, why not?



Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on July 08, 2014, 12:02:38 PM
First of all ...

But I"m going to ramble instead.  ;D

Best way to do it  ;D

Secondly -

If it enriches GA, makes it fun to read, doesn't spit in the face of everything before it, at this point, why not?

Well, my problem is this ... wasn't everyone telling everyone else how good this book has been a fun read since issue #17? To go deeper on the shows side seems to be a change that is not needed.

.....
crap ....

Be back in a little bit
 >:(


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on July 08, 2014, 12:56:34 PM
Sure, no prob.

Let me add this; if they only do nods to the show, would that be better?

I mean, I didn't read the actual 'Arrow' comic because, well, the show is what I'll watch. I already have a Green Arrow comic, and I don't want to read a tv-show comic.

But if having a supporting cast that people will know, or at least come to see as the actual supporting cast, wouldn't that be a win?


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jeff on July 08, 2014, 08:40:54 PM
I guess I really have no problem with them doing it, I'm just not interested in reading it. 


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on July 10, 2014, 02:13:04 PM
Have no idea what my train of thought was back a couple days ago ... so ... may as well just throw some words out there ...
 ;D

I get when you have two different properties, it makes some sense to make them as close to being the same as possible. IE black Nick Fury. I don't like it, but I get it. It just makes it easier on any potential new consumer.

Still sucks.

And I just wrote about 3 paragraphs here and deleted them ...  :(

 It's hard to describe but essentially, yes, just what you said, Jimmy. I don't want to read a tv show comic. If you start putting more and more people from the screen property into your comic property, you don't end up with a cool, interesting comic property, you end up with a comic adaption of a television show. You can reverse that all you want ... bring the comic world into the visual world (seeing Marvel "b" listers on AGENTS OF SHIELD is always fun), but stop bringing the screen people into my comics. I don't like seeing Coulson in my Marvel comics. I just don't.

Same with the Green Arrow comic. I didn't like that they brought in  ... whats his name from the tv show into that comic and started to tell the "island" crap from the tv show. I wasn't buying the comic, but it certainly lessened (slightly) the enjoyment of the comic. A comic that was a very good comic by the way. Even with all that. That team still made a great F'n comic, but one I didn't want to pay for.

I don't know ... I think that is what I was trying to say a few days ago.  :D With the Morphine and Vicodin I'm taking ... who knows.
 :D


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on July 18, 2014, 10:22:28 AM
I went back through this thread to see if it had all I wanted to say and what not.

All very valid points, all around. I for sure would NEVER want to see Smallville continuity become the absolute version of the Superman comic within my monthly panels.

But for me, I fall back on the perceived (Ok, my perceived) weakness of the world around certain characters. Green Arrow is one of them. LIke I said, no Alfred, Gordon, etc etc. They tried with the new 52 for a team Arrow (which the TV adopted as well). I won't lie; doesn't it make great sense to have the more recognized TV team Arrow bleed over into the comics? In this case, I still say yes. I really like Diggle, and Felicity. I bemoan the loss of Roy from the comic with whatever IN THE HELL they've done with him, seeing as how I enjoy watching him develop and grow.

But the comic Ollie still needs to retain who he is, apart from tv Ollie. Hell, I thought I caught a typo in the GA trades where Ollie was lost for a year, then it was later mentioned he was lost for 3. I'll maybe double check that.

More than anything, I want to know more about Ollie, and I need to be shown why he's different (and for me) better than Hawkeye. And I've been let down plenty times with GA comics in the past. Keep it running high, on all cylinders, and well, and I'm gonna stick with it.

But I'm REALLY really REALLY!!! gonna miss Lemire and Sorrentino. :(


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on July 18, 2014, 11:01:04 AM
It more than makes sense for the company that owns both properties (Comic and Screen) to make both properties more recognizable to each different consumer. Having your screen property match your comic property is an obvious choice for seamless transitioning of your consumer base. The easier it is for your buyers to recognize either property, the more at ease they are with purchasing both properties.

Like I said, I get it, I just don't like it.  ;D

Well, I don't like the screen coming over to my comics. I don't mind my comics coming over to my screen. I would rather enjoy the promotion of the comic medium displayed for all new potential buyers, rather than see our precious comic commodity become more like the main stream couch sitting community. (Man, that sounds rather Jessie Jackson'esgue.
 :D

As far as Hawkeye/Green Arrow, they are what they are. Not sure why you need to see Ollie being "better" than Hawkeye, Jimmy. Is that some latent DC is better kinda thing? ;) I like certain aspects of both characters, mainly their personality (In the comics at least). I like earlier Ollie as more the grumpy old man that is getting him some fishnet stocking booty (because it reminds me that us old shits can still swing the flesh arrow around)  :D while Clint being jealous of Cap and somewhat of a cry baby in his early appearances and a pretty good man in his newer shots reminds me that we all can change for the better, even if we do get divorced or screw witches while being dead ... possibly.  :D



Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on July 20, 2014, 06:27:07 AM
As far as Hawkeye/Green Arrow, they are what they are. Not sure why you need to see Ollie being "better" than Hawkeye, Jimmy.

Oh, I just like GA better than Hawkeye. That's all. Honestly, I think it originally derived from the costume design and colors. All my own excuses, to be sure.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on July 20, 2014, 07:31:34 AM
Oh I can understand that. I have always like the ludicrous nature of Hawkeye's purple, pointy mask, but GA's color scheme actually makes about 100% more sense and it looks more pleasing. For sure.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on November 11, 2014, 12:20:35 PM
So...I really miss Lemire & Sorrentino.

Right in the first issue

Naomi is gone, Fyff has gone working somewhere else, Emiko is off training, Ollie is dating some random woman, and...I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth immediately. It may prove to be okay. I mean, the Others and Komodo are still mentioned, it still happened, and if you take the previous arcs to be just a different novel starring the same characters, then it ought to be just fine. We'll see with more pudding tastes.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on November 23, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
Issue 36

Hm....still not the pudding I want to eat. Ollie himself seems okay, actually. I like seeing a bit more of the active in the city kind of humanitarian that he's been. The antagonism towards Luthor and Wayne, I wasn't sure of. But....again...not quite the greatest of introductions for Felicity. It hasn't quite caught on with me.

Okay. "missed the mark", some. ;)


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on November 24, 2014, 09:23:59 AM
Same writer, Jimmy?


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on November 24, 2014, 09:14:35 PM
35 & 36? Yeah.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on November 25, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Well shame to hear it is a little ... less enjoyable? I guess that is safe to say? And if so, do you think the inclusion of certain characters force the comic towards a direction that it is less fun or less enjoyable or is it just the natural flow of events and a slight down time that each title goes through?


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on November 25, 2014, 07:42:38 AM
Well shame to hear it is a little ... less enjoyable? I guess that is safe to say? And if so, do you think the inclusion of certain characters force the comic towards a direction that it is less fun or less enjoyable or is it just the natural flow of events and a slight down time that each title goes through?


I think I'm still reeling from the previous teams stunning work and departure, if I'm answering in all honesty.

The current team, while bringing in the TV element, has returned the comic back fully to it's comic roots. Meaning, a true 'superhero' costume in full 4 color glory (absent the shading singular palette used in all panels with Sorrentino's work).

It's going from Maleev's Daredevil, say, ...to Phil Hester's Green Arrow. Not calling Hester bad; no! But imagine that jarring visual switch.

It is slightly less enjoyable, with so much thrown out with the bath water from the prior run. It's gotta grow and develop. And perhaps I just wanted more of the same (cuz it was GREAT). But right now, it's not at a full charge out of the gate.


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Perry on November 25, 2014, 07:46:58 AM
Okay, okay ... my bad, I did forget it has been awhile since the "second team" left the book. That is who I thought you were talking about, but now I am with you. This is the third creative team. My bad. And I totally get you now. I was worrying that the prior great team had falling into a lull, but that is not the case.
 :)


Title: Re: Something to make Perry spit his teeth out (re: Green Arrow)
Post by: Jimmy T on November 25, 2014, 09:04:49 AM
Oh not at all! I made sure I bought all those Lemire/Sorrentino issues in trade too! It's too bad; since GA is not a big seller, they don't release these trades into a hardcover right away. Goes right to paperback.